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Kyle Harris

Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2008, 09:56:14 PM »

It was pretty, pretty hot in Philly during that US Open, this is from the weather archives:

http://www.fi.edu/weather/data2/1950.txt

6   7   1950   90   63   0   0
6   8   1950   90   63   0   0
6   9   1950   89   63   0   0
6   10   1950   89   68   22   0


Here are the temperatures for Upper Darby, Pa, not Philadelphia, on the dates of the Open.

You left off the playoff date, June 11th..

Upper Darby, Havertown, PA 19083

Date TmaxF TminF TmeanF PrcpIn SnowIn CDD HDD GDD
6/7/1950 91 57 74.0 0.00 0.00 9.0 0.0 24.0
6/8/1950 88 60 74.0 0.00 0.00 9.0 0.0 24.0
6/9/1950 88 59 73.5 0.00 0.00 8.5 0.0 23.5
6/10/1950 88 65 76.5 0.00 0.00 11.5 0.0 26.5
6/11/1950 85 61 73.0 0.17 0.00 8.0 0.0 23.0

In addition, the humidity was lower than normal during June of 1950


...a whopping 1-2 degree difference each day with higher low temps.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2008, 10:03:10 PM »
Kyle,

Mean temperatures in the low to mid 70's are not hot, especially when the humidity was lower than normal for June.

If it's heat and humidity you want, look at what Venturi went through at Congressional in 1964.

Allan Long

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2008, 10:06:12 PM »
1950 no contest.

Pat, I understand what you are saying in regard to Tiger, but months removed or not, Hogan was crushed head-on by a bus and given up to never walk again let alone play golf.

The fact that Hogan made it back to the '50 Open was incredible enough--winning it, miraculous.

Tiger's feat was quite remarkable. But, Tiger will need to rehab his knee. Hogan had to rehab his ENTIRE body while learning how to walk and swing a club again.
I don't know how I would ever have been able to look into the past with any degree of pleasure or enjoy the present with any degree of contentment if it had not been for the extraordinary influence the game of golf has had upon my welfare.
--C.B. Macdonald

Kyle Harris

Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2008, 10:16:22 PM »
Kyle,

Mean temperatures in the low to mid 70's are not hot, especially when the humidity was lower than normal for June.

If it's heat and humidity you want, look at what Venturi went through at Congressional in 1964.

Absent humidity data, you're only speculating.  ;D

Did you interview the state climatologist for 1950?  ;)

Surely you realize that the mean there is only the average between the high and low - which for two numbers would also just be the median, not the more meaningful average of temperatures taken every hour, which would show whether or not the data were positively or negatively skewed. A cool overnight will pull your mean down, while the hourly data will show what I want to know...  how quickly it got hot during the day and how long it stayed that hot. Absent that information, you're still speculating as to the true nature of the heat that day.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2008, 10:19:07 PM »
Kyle,

I'll post the hourly temperatures this weekend.

Do you or anyone else have Hogan's starting times ?

One would think that he teed off earlier on the final round

Oh, I forgot. 
There were 12 cloudy days in June and 11 Partly cloudy days, for 23 out of 30, or 77 % of the time.

As to the wind conditions, they could be a factor as well.

I don't recollect anyone indicating that the weather conditions were exceptional during the Open, unlike the Open Venturi won.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 10:22:11 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

Kyle Harris

Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2008, 10:22:17 PM »
Kyle,

I'll post the hourly temperatures this weekend.

Do you or anyone else have Hogan's starting times ?

One would think that he teed off earlier on the final round



I'm surprised you'll go to that effort but okay.

Who cares which was the greater achievement? Does either one somehow invalidate the greatness of the other?

Both showed grit and determination.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2008, 10:26:37 PM »
Allan Long,

Whom, specifically stated that Hogan would never walk again ?

When did they make that statement ?
The day after his accident, a week, a month, a year.
Obviously whomever it was that made the statement didn't know what they were talking about.

Are you sure that most of this info isn't from exaggerated newspaper articles, absent confirming concrete sources ?

Allan Long

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2008, 10:37:29 PM »
Allan Long,

Whom, specifically stated that Hogan would never walk again ?

When did they make that statement ?
The day after his accident, a week, a month, a year.
Obviously whomever it was that made the statement didn't know what they were talking about.

Are you sure that most of this info isn't from exaggerated newspaper articles, absent confirming concrete sources ?

Patrick,

Being that I wasn't present, I can only go by what is written in accounts of the era in newspapers, biographies, etc. Was the info exaggerated, who's to say. We can agree that the injuries were by no means a scrape and some bruises right? It would be hard to imagine that the injuries from the crash would not be life-threatening.

Garland, et., al.,

I have a question for you and all the others who've chosen Hogan's effort as the biggest medical achievement.

Why, in the famous photo of Hogan hitting his one iron into # 18 at Merion, isn't he doubled over in pain ?

Why does his form remain impeccable long after the ball is off the club face ?

If he was in pain and/or discomfort, he wouldn't hold his follow through.
He'd double over, hold his leg and/or grimace, like Tiger did, which is a natural reaction to pain caused by exertion.  Instead, he remains picture perfect.  If he was in pain due to his swing or walking, he wouldn't exacerbate it by holding his finish long after the ball was off the clubface.
Even the toughest of athletes favor an injured limb.  Hogan fails to do so.


Knowing what we know about Hogan, he was not the kind of person to give his opponents any peek into his mental or physical condition. To say that because Hogan wasn't outwardly writhing in pain dimishes what kind of pain he could have been in is inaccurate. I would also disagree that Hogan didn't favor an injured limb. While I don't have proof from footage of the '50 Open, footage from that era clearly shows Hogan limping along favoring his battered legs. You can even go ahead to the stories from the '53 British Open about Hogan's heavily bandaged legs and him having to soak in hot water to releive the pain. If that was the case four years after the accident, I would believe that it would clearly be the case in 1950.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 10:43:26 PM by Allan Long »
I don't know how I would ever have been able to look into the past with any degree of pleasure or enjoy the present with any degree of contentment if it had not been for the extraordinary influence the game of golf has had upon my welfare.
--C.B. Macdonald

Glenn Spencer

Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2008, 05:00:05 AM »

It was pretty, pretty hot in Philly during that US Open, this is from the weather archives:

http://www.fi.edu/weather/data2/1950.txt

6   7   1950   90   63   0   0
6   8   1950   90   63   0   0
6   9   1950   89   63   0   0
6   10   1950   89   68   22   0


Here are the temperatures for Upper Darby, Pa, not Philadelphia, on the dates of the Open.

You left off the playoff date, June 11th..

Upper Darby, Havertown, PA 19083

Date TmaxF TminF TmeanF PrcpIn SnowIn CDD HDD GDD
6/7/1950 91 57 74.0 0.00 0.00 9.0 0.0 24.0
6/8/1950 88 60 74.0 0.00 0.00 9.0 0.0 24.0
6/9/1950 88 59 73.5 0.00 0.00 8.5 0.0 23.5
6/10/1950 88 65 76.5 0.00 0.00 11.5 0.0 26.5
6/11/1950 85 61 73.0 0.17 0.00 8.0 0.0 23.0

In addition, the humidity was lower than normal during June of 1950


You can leave out the 7th, the tournament didn't start until the 8th.

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2008, 12:55:42 PM »
From The Onion:

Quote
Man Who Used Stick To Roll Ball Into Hole In Ground Praised For His Courage

SAN DIEGO—A man who used several different bent sticks to hit a ball to an area comprised of very short grass surrounding a hole in the ground was praised for his courage Monday after he used a somewhat smaller stick to gently roll the ball into the aforementioned hole in fewer attempts than his competitors. "What guts, what confidence," ESPN commentator Scott Van Pelt said of the man, who was evidently unable to carry his sticks himself, employing someone else to hold the sticks and manipulate the flag sticking out of the hole in the ground while he rolled the ball into it. "You have to be so brave, so self-assured, so strong mentally to [roll a ball into a hole in the ground]. Amazing." The man in question apparently hurt his knee during this activity.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Adam_Messix

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2008, 05:54:22 PM »
Pat--

As I've stated earlier, Hogan's legs locked on the 12th tee of the final round and he needed someone to hold him upright.  At that point he considered quitting.  So I would consider that similar to Tiger's doubling over in pain like after the tee shot on #2 Sunday. 

I have finally seem the interview where Tiger made the comments that you made.  Amazing.


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2008, 11:52:33 AM »
...
Why, in the famous photo of Hogan hitting his one iron into # 18 at Merion, isn't he doubled over in pain ?
...

Pat, IT'S A STILL PICTURE! ;) The same picture could have been caught of Tiger on any of the shots where he "doubled over in pain".
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2008, 11:55:59 PM »
So now the comparison is based on how much pain each guy is shown to be in?  Where were the cameras zooming in on Hogan after every shot?  How are we supposed to know about their relative pain tolerances?  Hogan had been through a bus accident that nearly killed him and had to rehab for months just to walk again.  Is it not possible he ended up with a higher pain tolerance than Tiger?

Heck, people have naturally different pain tolerances that seem to have no explanation, and some very minor injuries can cause quite a bit of discomfort.  Think about how much a paper cut sometimes hurts relative to the severity of the injury, and compare it to people who break bones and don't even know it until they are xrayed months or years later and the self-healed break is revealed.  If you go by the amount of "grimace", if a guy had a paper cut or blister in the wrong place he might show pain with every stroke but it wouldn't exactly be heroic for him to overcome it during a round of golf!
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Wayne_Freedman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2008, 12:00:02 AM »
Without records, nobody will know for certain.

Why must one performance be greater than another?

What matters is that this was a classic, gutsy performance. The legend of it will only grow with time.
Isn't that enough?
Must one quantify everything?


« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 12:06:52 AM by Wayne_Freedman »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2008, 01:57:17 AM »
Allan Long,

Whom, specifically stated that Hogan would never walk again ?

When did they make that statement ?
The day after his accident, a week, a month, a year.
Obviously whomever it was that made the statement didn't know what they were talking about.

Are you sure that most of this info isn't from exaggerated newspaper articles, absent confirming concrete sources ?

Renowned Tulane University surgeon Alton Ochsner, a pioneer in vascular surgery, and the person that performed the life saving surgery on Ben advised his brother and wife as follows before the surgery on Ben, "assuming that the patient in his rapidly weakening state managed to survieve such a radically invasive procedure, the sharply decreased flow of blood circulation in his legs would undoubtedly make walking anytime soon extremely difficult, if not impossible. Also, with several tiny veins having to do the work of one large efficient artery in returning blood to the heart, the pain could be excruciating in the lower extremeties. If the patient did eventually again walk on his own, he was likely to have major swelling in both legs and acute persistent pain for the rest of his life."

Now what does renowned skeptic Patrick Mucci have to say about that? ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mike Golden

Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2008, 08:22:23 AM »
from the mouth of Tiger himself:
http://www.majorschampionships.com/2008/microsites/usopen/2008/06/16/woods/index.html

Later, as the reflection of the U.S. Open trophy on the podium table in front of him gleamed under the camera lights, Woods acknowledged: "This week had a lot of doubt to it, to be honest with you."

Not Ben Hogan kind of doubt, of course. When Hogan suffered his near-fatal car crash in 1949, it was not known if he'd ever walk again. Fifteen months later, when he won the U.S. Open at Merion, Hogan completed an astonishing return to the top of the golf world.

"Well, I was not in as bad of shape as Ben was," Tiger said when asked about the comparisons. "... I knew I could walk. It was just going to be a little bit on the slow side."

even conceding that Tiger is being gracious in his comments, I think this says it all...


Patrick_Mucci

Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2008, 10:42:56 AM »
Allan Long,

Whom, specifically stated that Hogan would never walk again ?

When did they make that statement ?
The day after his accident, a week, a month, a year.
Obviously whomever it was that made the statement didn't know what they were talking about.

Are you sure that most of this info isn't from exaggerated newspaper articles, absent confirming concrete sources ?

Renowned Tulane University surgeon Alton Ochsner, a pioneer in vascular surgery, and the person that performed the life saving surgery on Ben advised his brother and wife as follows before the surgery on Ben,

"assuming that the patient in his rapidly weakening state managed to survieve such a radically invasive procedure, the sharply decreased flow of blood circulation in his legs would undoubtedly make walking anytime soon extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Also, with several tiny veins having to do the work of one large efficient artery in returning blood to the heart, the pain could be excruciating in the lower extremeties. If the patient did eventually again walk on his own, he was likely to have major swelling in both legs and acute persistent pain for the rest of his life."

Now what does renowned skeptic Patrick Mucci have to say about that? ;)

Why would a physician brought in to perform surgery on Hogan, a prominent National figure, when discussing the prognosis with the Hogan's WIFE and BROTHER, refer to Hogan in the third person, as "the patient" ?

It doesn't make sense.

I've seen an inordinate number of physicians over the last 15 years and not one of them, when discussing my case/s with my wife ever refered to me as "the patient".  

So, I have to question the authenticity and veracity of the quote.

It sounds more like an author's interpretation than a real life situation.
Is that quote from a book about Hogan, or from the Physician himself ?

Secondly, what radical procedure was he referencing ?

Thirdly, what pre-operative tests allowed him to speak with such certainty ?
They didn't have CT scans, MRI's, Nuclear medicine and dyes combined with each, that would allow them to precisely determine the extent of his vessel injuries and the extent of his restricted blood flow.   You need this information to determine the procedures for addressing Hogan's situation PRIOR to opening him up during surgery.  Surgeons lacking definitive studies and information tend to be unwilling to provide a prognosis until AFTER the surgery, when they've had ample opportunity to study and address the situation in the O.R.

Absent detailed information prior to surgery you wouldn't know the extent of his injuries, the ability to surgically address them, and more importantly, you wouldn't be able to render a post-operative prognosis

So, I have to ask you, is the quote from Dr Ochsner, or from an article or book about Hogan ?
[/color]


Peter Pallotta

Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2008, 11:02:06 AM »
To me, the most interesting aspect of this Hogan-Woods comparison is that two men from such wildly different times and places and upbringings could get to such similar places in terms of their determination, will power, and competitive fire. Fascinating to think of one man losing his father to suicide so early on and of the other having a doting and committed one for the first 30 years -- and ending up being great champions both.

Peter

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2008, 12:32:50 PM »
...
So, I have to ask you, is the quote from Dr Ochsner, or from an article or book about Hogan ?[/b][/color]


I have been stating all along that my information is from the authorized biography of Hogan. I guess I assumed those who had been reading the thread would know what I was quoting from. I must emphasize it was the authorized biography, because that means the author was given extensive access to the family and the doctors to elicit the information presented.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2008, 12:41:38 PM »
...
Absent detailed information prior to surgery you wouldn't know the extent of his injuries, the ability to surgically address them, and more importantly, you wouldn't be able to render a post-operative prognosis
...

Pat,

Clearly you have not been paying attention. The surgery had nothing to do with his injuries, which were healing fine. Kelly has it right. You seem to be on some unseemly vendatta to discredit Hogan.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #70 on: June 23, 2008, 02:17:21 PM »
To me, the most interesting aspect of this Hogan-Woods comparison is that two men from such wildly different times and places and upbringings could get to such similar places in terms of their determination, will power, and competitive fire. Fascinating to think of one man losing his father to suicide so early on and of the other having a doting and committed one for the first 30 years -- and ending up being great champions both.

Peter

What the heck are you doing interjecting thoughtful commentary into such a trivial debate?!

Ben was a man of few words. I suspect no one aside from his wife knew just how bad he felt.

Hats off to both, but no one will ever convince me Tiger's feat was comparable.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Peter Pallotta

Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #71 on: June 23, 2008, 04:00:06 PM »
George - thanks. I don't know what came over me this morning....

Tiger never ceases to amaze me, but I have a soft spot for Ben Hogan, i.e. what he must've been keeping inside all his life, how he sought for perfection in everything he did, the instinctive reaction to save his wife, and last but not least that trudge up the wet Carnoustie fairways on bandaged legs, head down, cigarette dangling, on his way to a bogie-free final round and the Open Championship.

Peter

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2008, 10:16:00 PM »
...
So, I have to ask you, is the quote from Dr Ochsner, or from an article or book about Hogan ?[/b][/color]


I have been stating all along that my information is from the authorized biography of Hogan. I guess I assumed those who had been reading the thread would know what I was quoting from. I must emphasize it was the authorized biography, because that means the author was given extensive access to the family and the doctors to elicit the information presented.


Garland,

I don't put much faith in those accounts.

In James W Finegan's "Pine Valley Golf Club", published by Pine Valley Golf Club, on page 28 he describes the circumstances surrounding Crump's death.

We know that that account was totally inaccurate, totally incorrect.

Yet, you would have us believe that any account, published with the blessings of the interested parties, must be accepted.

I wonder how President Clinton's authorized autobiography will characterize his relationship with Monica.  I know what he told me when he addressed me and the rest of America on TV and told us, "Listen to me, I did NOT ....."

I asked you how Dr Ochsner could determine all that's been alleged prior to conducting invasive surgery and without the benefit of CT Scans, MRI's and Nuclear Medicine.  You responded by stating that it was an authorized autobiography and therefore it must be accepted as The Gospel, despite the clear conflict with accepted medical practices, diagnoses and prognoses.

Kelly, et. al.,

Hogan's ordeal and his recovery were heroic, I already stated that.
As were his efforts to compete at the highest level.  That's not the issue.

The issue is the degree of impediment and pain caused by the injuries previously suffered by each man, when they were playing in the 1950 and 2008 Opens.   One 16 months prior to a competition, the other more contemporary.

As to Hogan's alleged act, it's counter intuitive.
If you have the time, in a car that may be a stick shift, especially if it was a floor mounted stick shift, and a drive shaft hump, to disengage yourself from the controls, (pedals, steering wheel and gear shift) you should have ample time to attempt to try to avoid the collision.  IF, the car had a floor shift, if would be very difficult for the driver to get his body from the driver's seat onto the passenger in the blink of an eye.  Anyone who's driven a floor mounted shift can verify that.

I understand that he was driving a Cadillac, but, I don't know what year.
Cadillacs came in stick and hydra-matic form, and the front seat was very wide.

The bus was passing a slow moving truck.

Why a bus would attempt to pass a slow moving truck in a fog is beyond me, but, instinctively, most reactions are to avoid a collision, not go through a thought process that leads one to conclude the inevitability of the pending crash, accepting the collision and then choosing an alternative course of action which entailed protecting the passenger by covering them with the driver's own body, and then acting upon and executing that decision.

It takes longer to go through that process and execute those manuevers than it does to violently turn the wheel, at the point of recognition of the bus, in an attempt to avoid the collision.

Again, it seems beyond counter-intuitive.

I don't know why a search for the truth would annoy anyone, but, that seems to be the local climate on GCA.com. recently

Steve Wilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #73 on: June 23, 2008, 11:05:36 PM »
For what it's worth, Hogan's option for avoiding a collision were limited by the guard rails of a bridge they were passing through at the time of the accident.  Of course, I know it's worth nothing as that's from Dodson's biography, and I don't have any pictures to prove it. 

Furthermore, I recall a report of Hogan disclaiming any credit for having thrown himself in front of his wife.  In reply to a question about it he said he acted out of a sense of self preservation by getting away from the steering wheel.  And considering the amount of trauma he suffered, I doubt if he had a clear recollection of exactly what he did.  Trauma victims often don't remember.  And Hogan's motivation in throwing his body in front of that of his wife has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand.  Even had he been the one driving left of center, it would not alter the extent of his injuries or the incredible achievement of overcoming them.     

All of this discussion has to be focused on the wrong part of Hogan's achievement.  I can easily agree that broken bones do heal without leaving permanent disability, especially if no joints are involved.  But the emergency surgery to tie off the inferior vena cava left him with a seriously compromised circulatory system.  I had a blockage in one leg, and I had gotten to the point Icould hardly drag it around nine holes by the time I had it operated on.  I don't know how Hogan managed to play the amount of golf he did.  Like Tiger, he clearly has a higher than usual pain threshold.

   
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Biggest Medical Achievement -- 1950 or 2008 U. S. Open
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2008, 11:08:51 PM »
Patrick -

I have to agree with Kelly, and go further than he did. The last few paragraphs of your last post were not among your finest moments here, in my opinion. And I say that with respect - if it weren't for your usual high standards, I wouldn't be commenting at all. It seems to me one has to look long and hard (and have a misguided sense of truth-seeking) to find much to question about Hogan's experience in that accident, and his determination afterwards. Maybe I'm missing something, but the narrative that a man weaves around himself and about his life is deeply personal and significant; I don't think it's proper to question that narrative lightly, especially when remaiing silent about it harms nothing and no one.

Peter

   

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