[Thomas MacWood]

What were the best courses in the southeast US in 1920?

Pinehurst #2, East Lake, Princess Anne, Cascades, Druid Hills......

[Phil_the_Author]

Could you define southeast?

[Thomas MacWood]

Virginia, WV, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, NC, SC, Georgia, and Florida.

Throwing in Cuba and the Bahamas might be interesting too.

[Scott_Burroughs]

When was Boca Raton (S) built?

Mountain Lake was 1917.

[BCrosby]

What were the best courses in the southeast US in 1923?

Pinehurst #2, East Lake, Princess Anne, Cascades, Druid Hills......

The big one you are missing is Palmetto GC in Aiken, S.C. The Augusta CC had a Ross course and a Raynor course (NLE). Both should be on your list.

Travis' Jekyl Island course would come ahead of Druid Hills. I don't recall if it was originally 18. It is now only 9 holes.

Lookout Mtn. (Raynor) ought to be on the list. I would check the dates on Chattanooga CC and the Biltmore GC (Asheville).

The Capital City Brookhaven course in ATL ought to be on the list not because it was very good, but because in '23 there were so few courses.

Add Raynor's Mountain Lake. I think Ross did the Biltmore course in Miami by that date, but I'm not sure.

Metarie (Raynor) in New Orleans?

Also look for the dates of the Richmond CC (Flynn?) and Farmington CC (Charlottesville).

Bob



  

[BCrosby]

Check on the dates for Yeamans Hall and Charleston CC, both are Raynor.

Bob

[Thomas MacWood]

I believe Mid Pines was built in 1923 or just before. Palm Beach was built in the teens. At some point in the 20s the Mississippi coast was a satelite for some Chicago architects. I'm not sure if that was later than 1923 or not.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Upon a search, our resident Flynn guru says Boca Raton (both courses) were built in 1929.

I believe Yeamans Hall was 1925.

[BCrosby]

Check out dates on the Grand Hotel (Ross) in Mobile.

1923 is an interesting cutoff date. Why did you pick it? The bulk of Ross' work in the SE took place after about 1925. So a 1923 cutoff leaves out a lot of great SE Golden Age courses.

Bob

[Mike Hendren]

Perhaps Memphis CC and Belle Meade.

[hhuffines]

Carolina CC, in Raleigh, NC, was built in 1910.  This is one of the few lists it can qualify for...

[Chris_Clouser]

Bob,

I'm not at home and don't have the Ross biography in front of me, but did Ross do a course at The Grand.  From talking with the people there, the first course built for the hotel was by Maxwell in 1944. 

[BCrosby]

Chris - You may well be right about The Grand.

Mike - Belle Meade was 1925 or 26. Ross made a swing through the SE in '25 and designed virtually all the best courses now in big SE cities. So Tom's 1923 cutoff knocks out a lot of courses, including Highlands, Athens CC, Birmingham CC, Mountain Brook and a lot of other Ross courses.

The Sea Island courses were also built later in the decade.

Bob

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

Cape Fear CC , a Donald Ross in Wilmington, NC

[Tom_Doak]

I think the question should be, WERE there any great courses in the Southeast in 1923?

My guess is that was about the time they started figuring out how to get warm-season turf to work for golf.  Prior to that time, the surface was so poor that it's hard to imagine there was such a thing as a "great" course in the South.

[John Goodman]

Farmington CC (Findlay) in Charlottesville wasn't built until '29 or later.

What's now the Westhampton course at the CC of Virginia predates 1910, no idea if it was a standout course or not.   The James River Course (Flynn & Toomey) wasn't built until '28, I think.

Roebuck Country Club in Birmingham was built by 1913 and hosted the Southern Amateur in '17 (won by 15 year old Bobby Jones).  Montgomery Country Club hosted the Southern Amateur in '13.

[Steve_Lovett]

Timuquana Country Club in Jacksonville opened in March, 1923.  I believe it hosted regional tournaments nearly from it's inception.

I suspect the St. Augustine (FL) Links - circa 1915 Donald Ross - may have been one of the better in the southeast.  Many great players of "the day" played there.  Unfortunately, it no longer exists.

[Mike Hendren]

Mike - Belle Meade was 1925 or 26. Ross made a swing through the SE in '25 and designed virtually all the best courses now in big SE cities. So Tom's 1923 cutoff knocks out a lot of courses, including Highlands, Athens CC, Birmingham CC, Mountain Brook and a lot of other Ross courses.
Bob

Bob, the first place I looked was the Southern Golf Association's web-site to see where its amateur had been held.  The first was at Nashville Golf Club of which very little is known.  The event was held in Nashville in 1911 and 1921 and I merely assumed the latter was at Belle Meade.

[Thomas MacWood]

I'm not sure about the history of many of these courses, for example Memphis.

Pinehurst #2 - 1901, 1923 Ross

East Lake - 1914 Bendelow?

Cascades - 1923 Flynn

Princess Anne - 1921 ?

Druid Hills - 1913 Barker

Old White - 1914 Macdonald

Mountain Lake - 1917 Raynor

CC of Charleston - 1922 Raynor

Mid Pines - 1921 Ross

Palm Beach - 1917 Ross

Memphis - 1905 ?

Belle Meade - 1921 Ross

Ashville (Grove Park Inn) - 1911 Barker, 1917 Willie Park

Metairie - 1923 Raynor

Westhampton (CC of Va) - 1909 Barker

Camden (Kirkwood) - 1923 Travis

Brookhaven (Ga) - 1912 Barker

Palmetto - ? Leeds

St. Augustine - 1915 Ross

Belmont Park (Hermitage) - 1918 Tillinghast

Roebuck - 1914 Barker

Timuquana - 1923 Ross 

Babson Park - 1920 Barton

[John Shimp]

Palmetto is 1892.  Leeds, Mackenzie, Ross, Jones, Doak team, Hanse

Charlotte Country Club was 1910 and should be on the list having hosted multiple USGA championships

Linville Golf Club might be another early one but not sure of date

[Mike Hendren]

Tom,

According to The History of Tennessee Golf: 1894 2001 James Foulis designed the Memphis CC's original nine holes in 1905 and Tom Bendelow added nine holes shortly thereafter before Ross re-built the entire course in 1910.  That seems like a lot of work in just half a decade and very early work in Ross' career.

The same book dates Nashville's Richland CC (NLE site of Amy Alcott's 1980 U. S. Open victory) at 1920 and Belle Meade at 1921.  

Ross also built a course at Tate Springs near Morristown in 1924 but I believe it is at the bottom of a TVA lake.

Mike

[SPDB]

What about Audubon Golf Club in New Orleans?
Also, was Tillie's St. Petersburg CC well-regarded?

[Jamey Bryan]

Tom MacWood beat me to this by including it in his listing, but Travis opened the Kirkwood Links (now Camden Country Club) late in 1923.  Apparently he took advantage of the new course, as the local paper said he stayed for much of the "season" and was playing the "new" course daily.

Travis patented a technique for undulating sand greens first implemented at Camden.

Approximately 75-80% of Travis's routing remains today.  Donald Ross's 1939 renovation rebuilt all the greens, eliminated one hole, added one, and made major changes to 2 others.  Other routing changes were pretty minor.

Jamey

[Chris Cupit]

Palmetto is 1892.  Leeds, Mackenzie, Ross, Jones, Doak team, Hanse

Charlotte Country Club was 1910 and should be on the list having hosted multiple USGA championships

Linville Golf Club might be another early one but not sure of date

My Linville hat has the date 1892 on it.  It is a terrific Donald Ross course that has recently been fixed up a bit.  I'm headed up for their Four-Ball tournament tomorrow--lows in the 50s and highs in the 70s and the all world seafood buffet Thursday night at the Eseeola Lodge

[David Stamm]

The Homestead

Seminole

Burning Tree

Chevy Chase

Miami CC

West Palm Beach CC

Overhills GC

Augusta CC

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