[Jeff_Mingay]

Daniel Wexler's writing (and blog) deserves more attention.

Read Wexler on Torrey Pines, relative to this week's US Open:
http://www.danielwexler.com/keeping-score/2008/6/10/plumbing-the-depths-of-mediocrity.html

[Adam Clayman]

Hear here.
 Effortless prose with a logical conclusion.

[Lou_Duran]

Mr. Wexler hits all the gca.com talking points.  He must be made a moderator.

[tlavin]

Mr. Wexler hits all the gca.com talking points.  He must be made a moderator.

Lou Du:

You is definitely on a roll.

[John Kavanaugh]

I am happy to learn that the Fazio bunkers at Riviera are the new standard for beauty.  I wonder what cost Riviera this 08 Open.  Shackelford's ignorance?  USGA racism?  Or Crenshaw screwing up the greens for the PGA?  Riviera would have been better and is ready...so what happened?

[Lou_Duran]

JK,

USGA (corporate) greed, of course.  Simply $$$$$$$, as one poster so eloquently and pithily noted.

[rjsimper]

Expect nothing less from a Middlebury grad...

[Mike Benham]

Expect nothing less from a Middlebury grad...

And I hear they have the top ranked quidditch club in the nation ...

[John Kavanaugh]

JK,

USGA (corporate) greed, of course.  Simply $$$$$$$, as one poster so eloquently and pithily noted.

Show me how Torrey makes the USGA more money than Riviera would have.

[Martin Del Vecchio]

Does Riviera have an adjoining 18-hole course that could be shut down for an entire year?  That's what it takes to fit the corporate and merchandise tents, and that is where the profit is these days.

[Sam Morrow]

Does Riviera have an adjoining 18-hole course that could be shut down for an entire year?  That's what it takes to fit the corporate and merchandise tents, and that is where the profit is these days.

I've never been to LA so I have to ask how the traffic and congestion would be around Riveria. Certainly if it's in a busy area it might not be feasible to bring a U.S. Open into that area.

[Lou_Duran]

JK,

I was being facetious and just parroting what those who believe TPS is architecturally unfit to hold the U.S. Open have said.  But of the top of my head, Riviera might not have the room to handle all the infrastructure that TP's more expansive site can.  A cynic might also argue that the USGA believes that it might sell a few thousand more memberships at $50 a pop to the public golf sector if it tosses them an occasional crumb.

Me?  I happen to believe that the USGA is mostly honorable and tries to do what is in the best BROAD interests of the game, and that TPS is easily a sufficiently high quality course to test the game's finest.  But what do I know.  I normally like to play the back tees, count my strokes, and play a broad cross section of courses.  I obviously have no appreciation for strategy and nuance.

[JohnV]

Does Riviera have an adjoining 18-hole course that could be shut down for an entire year?  That's what it takes to fit the corporate and merchandise tents, and that is where the profit is these days.

No, most of the revenue and profit is from TV, not the corporate tents.  Most of the revenue the USGA makes is from its contract with NBC.  According to Geoff Shackleford's book, "The Future of Golf", NBC and other broadcasters paid the USGA $49.31 Million in 2003.  I'm sure that has gone up since then.  

The USGA had a total revenue of $100M from championships in 2007 so over 50% of it is from TV.

Add in entry fees (about $5M for all the championships)
Ticket sales
Merchandise
and the corporate tents might make up 20% of their revenue.

Given that they had about $28M net revenue over expenses in Championships, they might make a $5-6M from the tents.

[Richard Choi]

I know it is popular to dump on Torrey Pines (and I, myself, am not enamored with the course), but I don't understand Wexler's argument.

I mean, only real negative he had about Torrey Pines was that it did not provide any chance for strategy. But with the way USGA sets up their course, narrow fairways, penal rough, rock hard greens, how much strategy is available?

I mean, I don't remember too many strategic options available at Oakmont last year (other than the short par 4). In every US Open, you have to hit the fairway and it is brutally long. What is so strategic about that?

[George Pazin]

Or Crenshaw screwing up the greens for the PGA?

It's funny, you love trotting this line out every time to rip Ben, yet everything I've read about the work at Riviera prior to the 95 PGA says that C&C strongly recommended reseeding with new grass, and someone else made the decision to sod instead.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge could straighten one of us out.

[Dan Herrmann]

I as just listening to XM146 on the way back from lunch.  They had an Irish golf writer on and Kessler asked him of his impression of Torrey Pines.

The author stated that the first US Open he attended was Shinnicock - what he termed the perfect melding of links and parkland golf.  He related how Winged Foot and Pinehurst were wonderful tests of golf that were deserving of a US Open.  He then said how he loved Oakmont's scale and feel.  (He made the points a lot better than I'm paraphrasing them here)

He then went on to say that TP is a perfectly fine golf course.  But it just didn't feel like he was at a US Open.

Along with Wexler, another guy that I think "gets it".

-------------

PS - Does anybody but me find the fairway bunkering to be extraordinarily boring?   Reminds me of the bunkering at a early Palmer course I once played in Pinehurst called "The Carolinia".  It had the first fairway bunkers I could hit a 5-wood out of since my muni days.

[John Kavanaugh]

Or Crenshaw screwing up the greens for the PGA?

It's funny, you love trotting this line out every time to rip Ben, yet everything I've read about the work at Riviera prior to the 95 PGA says that C&C strongly recommended reseeding with new grass, and someone else made the decision to sod instead.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge could straighten one of us out.

I know that is not the reason Riviera was skipped in favor of Torrey.  I do believe that if the ownership of Riviera was as white as the Century Club the results would have been different.  Am I the only person in the world offended by racism against Asian golfers?  Perhaps those architecture lovers who feel robbed having to watch this tournament at Torrey will finally feel cause to stand up and say something.  

[John Kavanaugh]

I as just listening to XM146 on the way back from lunch.  They had an Irish golf writer on and Kessler asked him of his impression of Torrey Pines.

The author stated that the first US Open he attended was Shinnicock - what he termed the perfect melding of links and parkland golf.  He related how Winged Foot and Pinehurst were wonderful tests of golf that were deserving of a US Open.  He then said how he loved Oakmont's scale and feel.  (He made the points a lot better than I'm paraphrasing them here)

He then went on to say that TP is a perfectly fine golf course.  But it just didn't feel like he was at a US Open.

Along with Wexler, another guy that I think "gets it".

This is also the same guy who said he considered medical school before becoming a golf writer.  Just another quasi-intelectual douche.

[Dan Herrmann]

John - please - let's not go there...  We're talking about TP.

[Dan Herrmann]

John - please - let's not go there (the racial thing)..  We're talking about TP.

And, it wasn't Kessler saying that stuff - it was the Irish author.

[Dale_McCallon]

I'm a public golfer, and I'm happy to see the USGA send their premier tournament to public venues.  I wish the USGA would send in Rees Jones and jazz up my course.  

Is Torrey Pines as good as Oakmont, Winged Foot, etc?  No, but has anyone said so far that it is?  The great privates of the world have been hosting these events since the beginning of the USGA and are still the most visited sites.  

It doesn't matter where they hold it--this board will find someway to rip the USGA.  Fairways too narrow, rough too high, greens too fast; and now a new one.  Those fairway bunkers aren't deep enough.

I say good for Torrey Pines and I know that I look forward to a Fathers Day/night of watching what looks like a really competitive tournament.

[John Kavanaugh]

John - please - let's not go there (the racial thing)..  We're talking about TP.

And, it wasn't Kessler saying that stuff - it was the Irish author.

I heard the interview. The irish guy also went way out of his way to declare Augusta the greatest parkland course ever without question.   How are you going to care about the opinion of a guy who on one hand trashes Torrey and praises Augusta in its present form?

Why ignore the racial hate often spewed at the ownership of Riviera when it has finally come to all of our homes to roost in the form of the 08 US Open?  I love Torrey but I would never deny that Riviera should have been the choice in 08 for Southern California.  In case you do not know, that is where Wexler works and was the jist of his article.

[Dan Herrmann]

John - points for you - you're right about his ANGC comment. 

[Kalen Braley]

John,

Not buying the race card here 1 bit, even though I do know you don't really beleive it and are just trying to stir up the pot.

However I will note and if I have my facts correct Pebble Beach which is owned by the resort either currently is or was once onced by a large Asian contingent.  And that never stopped all those US Open being played there and continue to be scheduled in the future.

Was the USGA just being selective in how it played the race card?

The irnoic thing is your so-called disgust in racism, yet your the one making unfounded statements and using the race issue to bash others.  Good job JK.

[John Kavanaugh]

Kalen,

Go play some public golf in California and ask the white guys you are paired with what they think about Korean golfers.  I have never heard such genuine hate from what I would assume not to be ignorant people.  I do not understand why it has become accepted practice.  It had not quite built to the point it is now back when the Asian group owned Pebble.

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