[TEPaul]

Steve:

There was never any question with MCC that they would use the building (the old Johnson farmhouse and attached barn) that was on the property.

[Garland Bayley]

i think the interesting thing is that there is OB in play on 13 out of 18 holes.  if a course was routed today with that much OB in play it would probably get blasted on this website.

I think most posters here understand the acreage requirements for a course. Therefore, if they knew it was 120 acres, they would tend to give it a pass on that account.

Agreed.  It's a tight site - and given that, the extent of OB is very understandable.  But, in general terms, it'd be better to have OB on the hook side than the slice side - I would think.

Better players hook, weaker players slice. What kind of players does Merion have.?

[Tim Bert]

i think the interesting thing is that there is OB in play on 13 out of 18 holes.  if a course was routed today with that much OB in play it would probably get blasted on this website.

I think most posters here understand the acreage requirements for a course. Therefore, if they knew it was 120 acres, they would tend to give it a pass on that account.

Agreed.  It's a tight site - and given that, the extent of OB is very understandable.  But, in general terms, it'd be better to have OB on the hook side than the slice side - I would think.

Better players hook, weaker players slice. What kind of players does Merion have.?

Probably some left-handed ones, amongst others.  The only thing worse than blatantly Handist remarks on a public web site are those that are embraced and encouraged by one of our own.

[ChipOat]

Mike Cirba,

I guess I'm supposed to know the answer to this already, but which 7 of the 18 original holes had been changed by 1924?

#'s 10, 11, 12 and 13 = 4 holes. 

The order was changed on #'s 3-7 but I'm not aware of any design changes other than the 4 holes I mentioned.

What do you know that I don't (on this particular question, that is)?

BTW, I honestly don't know how I could come up with a better routing than the original since I don't believe the ground that contains the current 11th green and 12th tee box was available in the beginning.  The original #13 was a neat little hole.  The club maintained it after 1923 as a practice hole with a very puttable green until that entire "hole" area (as it was called) was the site of the lone corporate tent during the '71 Open.  Since that IS the original premise of your thread, I did feel obliged to address it out of courtesy.
 

[PThomas]

man, i don't look in on GCA for 3-4 days, and when i come back there's at least 2 more Merion threads...

pls give it a break guys...every time i hear the word "Merion" now  the first thing i think about is all of the bickering, instead of the great golf course

[ChipOat]

Racetrack George:

I can't get 13 holes worth of OB that's "in play"

Clearly yes: #'s 2,6,7,8,14,15,17,18

"Sort of" yes (takes a REALLY bizarre shot to hit it OB; it's harder to hit it OB than stay IB): #'s 1, 10, 12, 16.

Now, that IS 12 holes where it's either probable (for many), possible or unlikely-but-doable-once-or-twice-in-a-lifetime so your point is acknowledged to some degree.  But I only count 8 holes where you can hit it OB without blading a greenside bunker shot or without actually TRYING to hit it off the golf course.

[Mike_Cirba]

man, i don't look in on GCA for 3-4 days, and when i come back there's at least 2 more Merion threads...

pls give it a break guys...every time i hear the word "Merion" now  the first thing i think about is all of the bickering, instead of the great golf course

Paul,

I don't know...we're talking architecture here pretty much...routing...clubhouse placement...restrictions of the property.

It's not so bad.  

[Mike_Cirba]

Just to clarify a little bit about what has changed from a routing perspective from the course that opened in 1912.

Holes that changed completely are the old 1, 10, 11, 12, 13.   

Green sites were moved on 2, 8, 14, and 17 was completely rebuilt by 1916.

Also, as noted, most of the bunkering wasn't done when the course opened, which is completely incongruous with the Macdonald style when you consider that virtually every one of the template holes are self-defined by their bunkering strategies.

Merion repeated none of them.   The supposed redan hole does not have the standard redan bunkering and we know the green is the opposite of the redan style.    "Far and Sure" said the supposed "Eden" greeen on 15 didn't work at all, and we've seen that the supposed "Alps" hole on 10 was not blind, nor much of a good hole.   

I'm sure the Committee wanted to create some of the famous holes...it was the rage Macdonald started.    I'm sure it just became sort of a useless exercise when they realized they could create some of the same type of challenges and strategies while creating something a bit more original.   

Trying to do otherwise would have required mass changing of the landforms, and I'm sure they quickly saw the futility in that.

[John Kavanaugh]

If you want the Merion threads to end you just need to get Brad Klein to pull the plug.  Only the threat of no more free golf and unlimited access will get these raters to stop.  Why do you think Cirba has been so afraid of using his real name.  Please somebody that "Dr" Klein respeects give him a call.

[Mike_Cirba]

If you want the Merion threads to end you just need to get Brad Klein to pull the plug.  Only the threat of no more free golf and unlimited access will get these raters to stop.  Why do you think Cirba has been so afraid of using his real name.  Please somebody that "Dr" Klein respeects give him a call.

John,

Please put the bottle away for the night.

[Mike_Cirba]

***Edited, per further discussion with John Kavanaugh.

[John Kavanaugh]

and please find a different thread to pollute with your bile.

You'd think that implying that Geoff Shackelford and Daniel Wexler are racists would be enough hate-mongering for one night. 

Mike,

I see you have added your lies to even another thread, a Merion thread at that.  Please show me where I ever called Wexler or Shackelford racists.  At least here you leave Lynn out of your fantasies. 

[Mike_Cirba]

John,

As that great Asian Confucious might say;

"Man who hurls enough shit grenades, eventually gets splattered."

[John Kavanaugh]

Why bring Wexler's good name into this? 

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