An Interesting Exercise

[Sean_A]

I recently did a list of my 36 favourite courses and a list of what I think are the 36 best courses I have seen.  I honestly thought the cross section of these lists would be not that far off matching.  It turns out there were only 21 courses on both lists.  I also found it amazing how many of my favourites or what I think of as really good courses that didn't make the cross section list.  Courses like Co Down, Aberdeen, TOC, Muirfield, Birkdale, Pinehurst, Portmarnock, Hoylake, Swinley Forest (a big surprise), Deal, Formby and Notts from the best list AND Tobacco Road & Machrihanish from the favourites list.

Of the 21 courses on both lists the biggest surprises for me were

PENNARD - certainly a favourite, but just crept in the top 36 for quality

WOKING - I would have never guessed this would make both lists, but once I looked at the final 21 I didn't have any doubts.

PRESTWICK - I just can't seem to shake this course from my memories despite what I think is a crazy green fee 

Other courses making the cross section are

Enniscrone & Carne - I will get another look at these shortly

St Enodoc - a comfortable lock for me

N Berwick - a comfortable lock for me

Portstewart - I admit to having some doubts about this course because nobody seems to share my enthusiasm, I need another look

Ballybunion - becoming less and less a comfortable lock with its astronomical green fees and I am not attracted to the town in any way, but the course is so so good

Sandwich - a comfortable lock

Burnham & Berrow - as I am a member, I have doubts, but so far the more I see it the more I like it

Portrush - all the talk of persistent nasty rough gives me doubts

Lahinch - a comfortable lock

Dornoch - a comfortable lock

The Island - its getting a bit expensive for what it is

Saunton - I have doubts and it has been a while, I need to see it again

Beau Desert - I have concerns about the tightness of the course in summer

Addington - comfortable lock

Woodhall Spa - I don't mind flat greens so much, but WS may be ott, I need another look

Old Town - a comfortable lock

Merion - a comfortable lock


I would be interested to see results from others.  It doesn't matter in the slightest what criteria you use to select favourites or best.  We all have our personal likes and dislikes. 

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean,

done a similar exercise but with only 12 courses

Best Played (ratings)

Pine Valley
TOC
Muirfield
Birkdale
Carnoustie
Turnberry
Lythm & St.Annes
Royal Melbourne
Kings Barnes
Gullane No.1
Doral Blue
Alwoodley

Favourite plays for on a daily basis:


TOC
Muirfield
Lythm & St.Annes
Royal Melbourne
Kings Barnes
Gullane No.1
Alwoodley
North Berwick
Kilspindie
Boat of Garten
Pretwick
Dornoch

Pine Valley didn't make favourite daily (I am sure I will get hammered for this) because although it was an awesome play I think that day in day out it is too demanding on specific shots that must be made.
Carnoustie is also overly demanding on a normal day and Doral is just way over the top (rather give up than play it every day)

Dornoch and Prestwick probably should be in the first list but I left them out.

TOC- Easy decision
Muirfield- Easy decision
Lythm & St.Annes-Excellent course especially the last 9
Royal Melbourne-Easy decision
Kings Barnes- Best modern course in Britain
Gullane No.1-Great course, fun to play
Alwoodley-Great course very underrated

I am sure that some will not agree with my picks and maybe tomorrow I would change the odd one.

[jeffwarne]

Sean,
I can't separate the two.
I truly don't care whether a course would be a challenge for elite players in a competition.
And in my case it appears setting is a big influence

Pennard has crept near the top for me in favorites-
Royal County Down
North Berwick
Brora
Royal Porthcawl (amazed it doesn't get more love here-VASTLY exceeded expectations)
Portsalon
St, Enodoc
National Golf Links
Palmetto
Piping Rock
Yeaman's Hall
Perranporth
Tenby (vastly exceeded expectations)
Sleepy Hollow
Pebble Beach (caught a perfect day, course in great shape, played a fourball in 3 1/2 hours teeing off at noon)
Shinnecock


What's funny is I don't feel the love for such faves as Pine Valley, Dornoch, Machrihanish, Portrush (I preferred The Valley course) Pinehurst , despite multiple plays on all

Courses such as Ballybunion I think are great but I can't stand the scene and doubtfully ever return.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Jeff..what do you mean you cannot stand the scene.....please explain....this is not a criticism, just wonder what you mean?
thanks

[jeffwarne]

Michael,
I first went to Ballybunion in 1986-what a place and experience.

I went several times in the following years and by 1997 it was out of hand.
Tour buses everywhere, madhouse new clubhouse full of tourists.

perhaps there is a silver lining to the weak dollar and it's not so crazy anymore.

i just returned from Wales-it's Ireland 20 years ago-welcomed warmly everywhere-Americans are still a curiousity- fantastic place-we saw no other Americans (or any other visitors for that matter)-
9:30 tee times on weekends-no waits -unbelieveably nice weather to boot

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

That is what I thought you menat and you have my 100% agreement

[Tony_Muldoon]

Sean I've been lucky enough to play a few rounds and to read many of your posts on here, so there were a few surprises.

What’s not to like about RCD/ (I've yet to see TOC)


Neither Cruden nor Brora make either list?
The Island over Portmarnock?

(Played Portrush at the end of April and the Starter must have said 3 x "they've revised the rough it won't be so tough in future")

[Sean_A]

Sean I've been lucky enough to play a few rounds and to read many of your posts on here, so there were a few surprises.

What’s not to like about RCD/ (I've yet to see TOC)


Neither Cruden nor Brora make either list?
The Island over Portmarnock?

(Played Portrush at the end of April and the Starter must have said 3 x "they've revised the rough it won't be so tough in future")

Tony

You've played with me enough to know that I am not all about the architecture.  I have to dig the vibe of a place if its gonna make my ultimate list.  All the courses you mention are wonderful, but the list I produced is a cross section of my favourites with what I think are the best courses I have seen.

RCD is a great course, but it wasn't one of my favourites.  It costs a lot of money to play and for that the club sticks you in a visitors' bar.  Not my idea of a welcoming. 

What can I say about Cruden Bay?  Its on my list of favourites, but not on my list of best.  There are too many so so holes and the main reason is that relief course sucks up a lot of great land.  Cruden Bay should be a lot better!

I love Brora, but if Pennard is rudimentary in design elements then Brora is stoneage.  It doesn't matter, I am always happy to revisit.

Without a question of doubt, I will take The Island over Portmarnock every day of the week.  Loads more variety at The Island and a hugely undervalued course. 

I hope the rough is sorted out at Portrush!

Jeff

I don't care about a test for the pros either.  I actually rate very few championship courses. 

One correction about Wales, you did see one Yank there!

Jon

Its interesting how your cross section of courses is about the same percentage as mine.  Were you surprised by this?

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Hi Sean,

no, I was not suprised by this. I think in general we both look for the same things in courses. Diversity of challange, interest of topography and trueness of character. Also, difficulty is not an issue used to judge a course.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Sean,
Why isn't your favorite course the same as the best course list?

Jon,
Maybe if you played Pine Valley more it would become your favorite.

[Sean_A]

Sean,
Why isn't your favorite course the same as the best course list?

Jon,
Maybe if you played Pine Valley more it would become your favorite.

Mike

I spose it never occurred to me that the best courses should be my favourite courses.  I think one reason why many of what I think are best courses aren't my favourites is because they tend to be too difficult.  Once courses have a certain sort of championship difficulty I tend to look for the variety in use of terrain, placement of bunkers, angle of doglegs etc.  Often times championship courses don't throw up a lot of surprises.  I have two very good examples of this, Portmarnock and Porthcawl.  Both are very good, but I find them predictable and without a lot of imagination.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

Sean:

The founder of this web site insists that his favorite courses are therefore the best courses.

I'm more like you are, with different answers for different questions. 

In opining on the greatest courses, I feel compelled to give some weight to how they would hold up for all classes of players, including the boys who hit it 330 yards -- not that the course has to make it difficult for them to shoot par, but that it would call out some great play from them to shoot a low number instead of just rolling over.

Favorite courses have much more to do with the setting and the people and probably with personal experience, although everyone likes to pretend they're not biased.

[James Boon]

Sean,

A quick list of 10 best and 10 favourites for today:

Best
1. Royal Dornoch
2. Royal Portrush
3. Royal Liverpool
4. Woodhall Spa
5. Walton Heath
6. Notts
7. County Louth
8. Gleneagles (Kings)
9. Saunton (East)
10. St. Enodoc

Favourite
1. Brora
2. Burnham & Berrow
3. Cavendish
4. Painswick
5. Notts
6. Royal West Norfolk
7. Royal Dornoch
8. Walton Heath
9. Gleneagles (Kings)
10. St. Enodoc

I too was suprised that the best aren't always my favourites. As with any list, I may well give a different answer tomorrow but it seems to me that I can walk off the 18th knowing that I've just played a great course, but that doesn't mean that I would love to play it every day of the week...

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean,
Why isn't your favorite course the same as the best course list?

Jon,
Maybe if you played Pine Valley more it would become your favorite.

Mike,

I loved playing PV, finding the whole experience spell binding. I do feel however, that the pureness of the test in shot making that PV sets out would long term make it often more grind than I would want on an off day. There are for me too many shots, especially from the tee, where you have to hit it good.

Don't get me wrong, a course like Kilspindie is never going to compete on the greatness scale with PV but, when I am having an off day (or month) I think I would enjoy playing Kilspindie more.

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