[Brian Noser]

Not a hidden gem per say, but I nominate Arm and Hammer. Most People have no clue it exists...

2 dollars!!!

Los Angeles Ca

[John Sheehan]

Wild Hawk (Elk Grove, CA): Lots of interesting fairway undulations and central hazards, doesn't feel cramped despite small acreage, houses only along one border. Cheap (by CA standards).

Whoa. You're actually the first person I've heard say they like that course or compare it to anything like a "hidden" gem.

Jed,
I have not played Wild Hawk.  Have you?  Sounds as if, perhaps, maybe you don't think much of it?  Just out of curiosity, what specifically did you like/dislike about it?  I was thinking of going out to take a look next time I am out that way. 
Thanks,
John

[Doug Ralston]

Doug,

what course is this?

Eagle Ridge, Yatesville Lake State Park, KY. The first post was #2 from the tee, later #2 looking back up. BTW, if you could see left past the green, it drops off disasterously. Turns out, playing your 1st shot short and left near the chasm gives you a longer but more protected approach. Fun hole.

And the one with Bro looking down the broken fairway is #6. Tough long par-4 indeed, but with a nice bail-out long right.

How did someone get them to post, instead of my address only. I am STILL having trouble understanding how this works.

Doug

[Michael Mimran]

Westchester/Putnam doesn't have a large amount of public access courses, so i dont know if you would consider them hidden gems, but perhaps not on the radar of the casual golfer.  Definitely worth a look though.

Harlem Valley Golf Course - Wingdale, NY.  Donald Ross supposidly designed it in 1928
West Point Golf Course - Has some interesting holes and great views.
Sedgewood Club - Carmel, NY - Way up on the middle of no where on the smallest dirt road, they might have 50 members, very interesting place.
Quaker Hill - RTJ 9 holer in Pawling, NY
Red Hook Golf Course - Red Hook, NY - Unfortunately they threw some awful condos on the first couple holes, but after that its nice.  Back nine is above average with some really interesting holes cut out of some pretty dense woods.  Often overlooked in the slew of public courses in Dutchess (James Baird, Union Vale, Casperkill, Carvel, Silo Ridge, McCann).

Buffalo/Niagara region
Beaver Island State Park - Worth playing if you are in the area, not very difficult, but fairly scenic and a nice walk.  It's in good shape for a state park

[John Goodman]

It's more "hidden" than a "gem" perhaps, but I will nominate Musgrove CC, Jasper AL.

The property was originally a hunting lodge owned by coal baron Col. L. B. Musgrove (used by him and his guests when repaired from his suite at the Waldorf Astoria down south).  He built (I don't know who designed) the original nine holes; nine more were added in 1960, and Jerry Pate redid the course in the early 1990s.

When Col. Musgrove lost his fortune in the crash of '29, he leased the property for 100 years to a group of prominent citizens of the county.

The clubhouse is a log cabin, built with logs from the property and is one of the coolest looking clubhouses I have seen.

The course is not long (6600 yards from the tips) but has some sporty touches and is very fun to play.  One and nine play out and back respectively across Blackwater Creek; one crosses the creek via two swinging wooden bridges.

Here's a shaky photo (from the website) of the par 4 first:

And one of the par 3 12th:


   

[DMoriarty]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but the Los Angeles County Course at Santa Anita is certainly a hidden gem.   It would be a masterpiece if it was only in Philadelphia.

[Matt_Ward]

Doug W:

A few retorts on top of the answers you previously supplied ...

Grandote benefited from also having a remote location -- traveling to La Veta does take an effort and I do salute the design team for integrating the native areas in such a unique and fun way.

Doug, Grandote was KNOWN the minute it became rated by Digest -- cracking the state's top ten elevated the layout beyond its previous "hidden" status. Try to understand the timeline of exposure -- courses that are not rated are truly hidden from the broader public view.

Digest rated the course too high even then -- that doesn't mean to say the course when it first opened was not worth seeing / playing. The issue of one of overall context.

The other dynamic is the natural evolution of Colorado golf since the time Grandote opened. Much has changed DRAMATICALLY -- no doubt you would likely concur. Grandote does still have its moments but public golf in the state has really taken off and I have been a loud advocate in letting others know that.

You ask what does that have to do with the question at hand?

Simple.

Grandote has been passed by other courses. Not only in terms of architectural diversity but also in terms of daily preparation. I've played Grandote on three occasions -- the first was truly fun. The second was a disaster as the place was in horrible shape. The final time -- last year -- was good but architecture in Colorado has now evolved and benefited from a range of courses that have opened since then.

Regarding your definition of "hidden gem" I have no idea on what is known or not known by the participants on GCA or elsewhere. Some people are literally clueless about courses within 50 miles of where they live. With others the standard is far different. I simply used a benchmark of course ratings (state / national) as a factor in outlining whether the course(s) have received attention from a benchmark of a magazine like Digest. Once a course has been rated -- even if only once -- it then flies higher on the radar screen than those that have not -- hence the meaning / application of the word "hidden." If a guy from Jersey can know where Grandote is and get there to play it then it's likely others have done the same thing.

In regards to people making a special visit to Grandote -- I would dare say their time would be better spent playing any number of the fine public play options in and around the greater Denver area. I liked what Grandote provided when it first opened and it still has elements worth celebrating. For you Doug -- it may still be a marvel of design -- for me the issue is one of the past more so than the present. To each his own.

[Tim Leahy]

Wild Hawk (Elk Grove, CA): Lots of interesting fairway undulations and central hazards, doesn't feel cramped despite small acreage, houses only along one border. Cheap (by CA standards).

Whoa. You're actually the first person I've heard say they like that course or compare it to anything like a "hidden" gem.

Jed,
I have not played Wild Hawk.  Have you?  Sounds as if, perhaps, maybe you don't think much of it?  Just out of curiosity, what specifically did you like/dislike about it?  I was thinking of going out to take a look next time I am out that way. 
Thanks,
John

I live very close to Wildhawk and play it mostly for the price and proximity to my house. And although they did a good job with what they had to work with, flat treeless cow pasture, I would not call it a hidden gem. If I had to choose between another hidden gem Mather GC, Jack Fleming parkland course nearby within 10 miles, and Wildhawk, I would choose Mather 10 out of 10 times.

[Doug Wright]

Doug W:

A few retorts on top of the answers you previously supplied ...

Grandote benefited from also having a remote location -- traveling to La Veta does take an effort and I do salute the design team for integrating the native areas in such a unique and fun way.

Doug, Grandote was KNOWN the minute it became rated by Digest -- cracking the state's top ten elevated the layout beyond its previous "hidden" status. Try to understand the timeline of exposure -- courses that are not rated are truly hidden from the broader public view.

Digest rated the course too high even then -- that doesn't mean to say the course when it first opened was not worth seeing / playing. The issue of one of overall context.

The other dynamic is the natural evolution of Colorado golf since the time Grandote opened. Much has changed DRAMATICALLY -- no doubt you would likely concur. Grandote does still have its moments but public golf in the state has really taken off and I have been a loud advocate in letting others know that.

You ask what does that have to do with the question at hand?

Simple.

Grandote has been passed by other courses. Not only in terms of architectural diversity but also in terms of daily preparation. I've played Grandote on three occasions -- the first was truly fun. The second was a disaster as the place was in horrible shape. The final time -- last year -- was good but architecture in Colorado has now evolved and benefited from a range of courses that have opened since then.

Regarding your definition of "hidden gem" I have no idea on what is known or not known by the participants on GCA or elsewhere. Some people are literally clueless about courses within 50 miles of where they live. With others the standard is far different. I simply used a benchmark of course ratings (state / national) as a factor in outlining whether the course(s) have received attention from a benchmark of a magazine like Digest. Once a course has been rated -- even if only once -- it then flies higher on the radar screen than those that have not -- hence the meaning / application of the word "hidden." If a guy from Jersey can know where Grandote is and get there to play it then it's likely others have done the same thing.

In regards to people making a special visit to Grandote -- I would dare say their time would be better spent playing any number of the fine public play options in and around the greater Denver area. I liked what Grandote provided when it first opened and it still has elements worth celebrating. For you Doug -- it may still be a marvel of design -- for me the issue is one of the past more so than the present. To each his own.

Matt,

I stand by my prior comments, particularly if you're justifying your position by means of saying you're just "a guy from Jersey" who happened upon Grandote. Matt you're the King of Rocky Mountain Golf, not just a "guy from Jersey"!

Grandote is a "hidden gem":  "Hard to find or relatively unknown to participants on this site, but a quality course with decent golf course architecture that is worth seeing if you are in the area."  This definition doesn't imply that one should forego other fine courses here in the Denver area to drive 3 hours south to play Grandote--only you would do that pardner. However, if one is in the Southern Colorado area it's definitely worth seeing.

[Kyle Henderson]

I live very close to Wildhawk and play it mostly for the price and proximity to my house. And although they did a good job with what they had to work with, flat treeless cow pasture, I would not call it a hidden gem. If I had to choose between anothre hidden gem Mather GC, Jack Fleming parkland course nearby within 10 miles, and Wildhawk, I would choose Mather 10 out of 10 times.

I haven't played either in awhile, but I'd say 8:2 Wildhawk over Mather.

Different strokes...

[John Goodman]

I'd also propose The Manor (originally called Poplar Hill) in out-of-the-way Farmville VA.  Rick Robbins design, an excellent course in an area, Central Virginia, where there's not much worth talking about in terms of course architecture.

Here's the par five, 560 yd second, from the landing zone looking toward the green:


And from the green looking back to the fairway:


Here's the par four, 348 yd 16th:

[John Goodman]

Um, let's try those pix again:

[PCCraig]

Old Elm and Shoreacres for the hidden and private factor.

I always thought 'The Fort' in Indy was cool and almost a secret to anyone visiting.

Also, George Wright in Boston.

[Chris_Clouser]

Doug,

I promise that after this year I will make the effort to try and see some of the Kentucky courses you keep talking about.  The Fort probably belongs in that group of top courses in Indiana, as Pat Craig mentioned it.  It would be above Coyote in my mind. 

I am planning my trip for late July to go down and see Buck Point, Grand Oak and Belterra.  So I can probably comment on those then. 

As for Prairie View, for some reason it just didn't resonate with me like it does with a lot of other people.  I possibly need to go back.  Maybe I was just trying to find a reason not to like it.

[Andy Troeger]

Bart, Andy, Chris:

We used to play the Peru Muni in a HS tourney... I haven't played there in a long time but remember it definately having a bit of quirk, and some fun elevation changes.  

For the Central IN area, I'd nominate the following:  
Wildcat Creek in Kokomo (plus it's just down the road from a famous gentleman's establishment)
Coyote Crossing in Lafeyette
Honeywell GC in Wabash (30 dollars all you can play on Mondays)
Meadowbrook GC in Anderson (short and sweet, not the greatest scenerey)
Killbuck GC in Anderson (its cheap, has some fun greens, and a handful of really good holes IMO)
and I'm in total agreement about Royal Highlands  

This is great...Another Peru muni mention...the place will be able to raise their rate to $19 if we just keep it up.

I too have played Royal Highlands and enjoyed it.  I had forgotten all about it until Chris mentioned it.  Bear Slide is such a mixed bag with a couple of lousy holes...distinctly different front and back nines.  I played it about 20 times when I lived in Indy so I guess I didn't hate it.

Bart

I wouldn't mention Bear Slide and gem together either personally. I thought the front side was mediocre and the back had some really nice holes and others not so much. I've only played it once and its been awhile so maybe I'd see it differently if I went back, but I wasn't that impressed the first time. Its a nice course, but wouldn't likely make my top ten publics in the state. I certainly would put it behind Sultan's Run, Rock Hollow, Warren, The Fort, and French Lick off the top of my head. I like Blackthorn better too although I think that's more of a personal preference and familiarity issue.

Doug,
Personally I like your definition of hidden gem. Grandote Peaks today certainly qualifies IMO. I didn't realize until after I played it that it was so highly regarded in older lists. Had I not been in the DG here I'm not sure I'd have ever known that. In any case, I agree it no longer belongs in the upper echelon of Colorado golf courses, but its well worth playing and maybe could sneak in to the bottom of the top twenty currently. I liked it as well as the Eisenhower Blue Cse, and at $30 or whatever the cost was its hard to beat!

[Doug Ralston]

Doug,

I promise that after this year I will make the effort to try and see some of the Kentucky courses you keep talking about.  The Fort probably belongs in that group of top courses in Indiana, as Pat Craig mentioned it.  It would be above Coyote in my mind. 

I am planning my trip for late July to go down and see Buck Point, Grand Oak and Belterra.  So I can probably comment on those then. 

As for Prairie View, for some reason it just didn't resonate with me like it does with a lot of other people.  I possibly need to go back.  Maybe I was just trying to find a reason not to like it.

Chris,

Oddly, we have not yet played 'The Fort', but will sometime soon. Thanks also for your suggestion of Champion's Pointe. We have heard good from other sources there, so it is on our list.

Buck Point is just an 'old country course' by P B Dye. Not as completely clean lined and heavily conditioned as more monied courses, but with, IMHO, a very clever layout, especially the back nine.

Chris, for your list, when you come to Kentucky, play Dale Hollow, Eagle Ridge, Hidden Cove, Stonecrest, And perhaps Wasioto Winds [which everyone else liked more than me]. Oh yes, if you haven't played Old Silo, find a windy day and see how much fun that can be.

Enjoy

Doug

[Jed Peters]

Wild Hawk (Elk Grove, CA): Lots of interesting fairway undulations and central hazards, doesn't feel cramped despite small acreage, houses only along one border. Cheap (by CA standards).

Whoa. You're actually the first person I've heard say they like that course or compare it to anything like a "hidden" gem.

Jed,
I have not played Wild Hawk.  Have you?  Sounds as if, perhaps, maybe you don't think much of it?  Just out of curiosity, what specifically did you like/dislike about it?  I was thinking of going out to take a look next time I am out that way. 
Thanks,
John

I live very close to Wildhawk and play it mostly for the price and proximity to my house. And although they did a good job with what they had to work with, flat treeless cow pasture, I would not call it a hidden gem. If I had to choose between another hidden gem Mather GC, Jack Fleming parkland course nearby within 10 miles, and Wildhawk, I would choose Mather 10 out of 10 times.

Wildhawk is "spray and wedge" golf at its finest.

It's a tight, confined, contrived routing where you're dodging this person or that person. I guess for what it is, it's all fine and dandy, but it ain't no "hidden gem" in the golf world. No way no how.

I like going out there and playing my buddies who have their vanity handicaps from out there.

I've got one for ya'll.

Fall River Mills Golf Club, Fall River, CA

[PCCraig]

Doug,

Could you elaborate on Coyote Crossing? I have to go to a wedding next weekend in W. Lafayete and was planning on either playing the Purdue Kampen Course or Coyote.

I would say that Indiana has some fantasic golf courses. I have played prairie view and enjoyed it alot. It is very similar to Thunderhawk north of Chicago (a RTJ Jr. Course also) but beter.

[Chris_Clouser]

Pat,

Here is a thread I started about Coyote last year.  I still think it is in the top 10 in the state in publics.  I've seen a few places since I put this together.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30844.0.html

To be honest, I think it is a much more fun course than Kampen.  I personally feel it is also a much better design.  I doubt Kampen has recovered yet from hosting the NCAAs as well and it probably is playing way over the top difficulty wise.

If you think you might have the time, try to get to Attica and play Harrison Hills.  The back nine there is full of old Langford holes that are different from anything else you will see among Indiana public courses.  I would put the course between Coyote and Kampen in my personal rankings.

[Tim Leahy]

I've got one for ya'll.

Fall River Mills Golf Club, Fall River, CA

Jed have you played Fall River? I have read about it for many years, but never had the time to find it. I mapped it out and it is really in the middle of nowhere, at least five hours from Sacto with nothing else in the vicinity. It used to be rated as one of the toughest courses in Cali. I understand that Clint flies in to play. Unless you are on a hunting/fishing/golf trip I can't see driving that far out of the way.

[Chris_Blakely]

Some examples of my hidden gems (and why I think they are worth seeing):   

Blueberry Hill GC, Warren, PA. By Ferdinand (Fred) Garbin, who worked with James G. Harrison (who in turn I believe worked with Ross). This course in the remote wooded hills of NW Pennsylvania is a pleasure to play. It makes fine use of the rolling countryside, and the sloped, small greens evoke Ross. Although some of the holes have been reworked and are less interesting than the originals, any course that features bells that must be rung on three holes to alert the following group that the fairway is open is pretty cool to me. Has anyone else on this site played this course?


Maybe it's the course you grew up on. If it hits the definition, let us know about it.  Thanks for your input.

I too have played Bluebetty Hill in Warren PA,  However, I would only call the front 9 the true hidden gem / worth of seeking out if in the area.  The front 9 is the orginal 9 and was by James Harrison.  The back 9 was by Ferdinand Garbin.  After playing this course, I wan to play more early Harrison courses.  The back 9 at Blueberry Hill is not bad, but nothing that wowed me or made me think I need to play more Ferdidnand Garbin courses.

Chris

[David_Tepper]

Hidden gems in the Scottish Highlands would include Golspie and Fortrose & Rosemarkie.

[Jason McNamara]

Jed have you played Fall River? I have read about it for many years, but never had the time to find it. I mapped it out and it is really in the middle of nowhere, at least five hours from Sacto with nothing else in the vicinity.

Don't think of it as five hours from Sacto - think of it as less than three from Klamath Falls!   

(Haven't gotten there yet, myself.)

[Doug Wright]

Some examples of my hidden gems (and why I think they are worth seeing):   

Blueberry Hill GC, Warren, PA. By Ferdinand (Fred) Garbin, who worked with James G. Harrison (who in turn I believe worked with Ross). This course in the remote wooded hills of NW Pennsylvania is a pleasure to play. It makes fine use of the rolling countryside, and the sloped, small greens evoke Ross. Although some of the holes have been reworked and are less interesting than the originals, any course that features bells that must be rung on three holes to alert the following group that the fairway is open is pretty cool to me. Has anyone else on this site played this course?


Maybe it's the course you grew up on. If it hits the definition, let us know about it.  Thanks for your input.

I too have played Bluebetty Hill in Warren PA,  However, I would only call the front 9 the true hidden gem / worth of seeking out if in the area.  The front 9 is the orginal 9 and was by James Harrison.  The back 9 was by Ferdinand Garbin.  After playing this course, I wan to play more early Harrison courses.  The back 9 at Blueberry Hill is not bad, but nothing that wowed me or made me think I need to play more Ferdidnand Garbin courses.

Chris

Chris,

That's interesting--I didn't know that the course was built in two phases but it makes sense. I agree the front 9 is much better. The topography for the front is better too.

[Tim Leahy]

Jed have you played Fall River? I have read about it for many years, but never had the time to find it. I mapped it out and it is really in the middle of nowhere, at least five hours from Sacto with nothing else in the vicinity.

Don't think of it as five hours from Sacto - think of it as less than three from Klamath Falls!   

(Haven't gotten there yet, myself.)

Klamath Falls? Wasn't that where Rocky and Bullwinkle were from?

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