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DFarron

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #150 on: May 04, 2018, 04:53:42 PM »
Ca-Pacific Grove


Oh-Red Hawk Run, Hawk's Nest (if Muirfield Village and Prairie Dunes had a baby HN would be it)




And my "In Memoriam" pick...Aetna Springs

Andrew Buck

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2018, 06:14:07 PM »
I really enjoy the Kankakee Elks Country Club about an hour South of Chicago in Kankakee, Ill.  My mom is from Kankakee and played there numerous times.  Wonderful old course, almost a 100 years old and a Langford/Moreau design.  Great memories of this place.


Jeff,


Love Kankakee Elks.  My dad grew up in Kankakee (Bishop Mac) and grandparents lived in Bourbonnais until they passed.


So many strong holes and love the plateau par 3 on the back.  Good memories of one of my best competitive rounds there.


That would be an awesome course to restore.

Greg Chambers

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2018, 07:11:27 PM »
Redlands CC in SoCal...I wrote a rather lengthy post on why, but it disappeared when I tried to post it, so I’ll just leave it at that.
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Andrew Buck

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2018, 07:37:20 PM »
Redlands CC in SoCal...I wrote a rather lengthy post on why, but it disappeared when I tried to post it, so I’ll just leave it at that.


By San Bernardino? 


I may find myself with a reason to be there frequently the next several months.


I think there is a Max Behr around there also, Victoria Golf Club.

Greg Chambers

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #154 on: May 04, 2018, 09:19:18 PM »
Yes.  The second nine is attributed to Dr Mac...currently undergoing an updating courtesy of Mr Eckinrode.  Finished work looks great.  The course is just filled with fun shot after fun shot.


Check out Red Hill CC as well...George C Thomas...
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Cal Seifert

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #155 on: May 07, 2018, 10:28:40 PM »

Pete Dye River Course at Virginia Tech. 

Fairly recent Pete Dye remodel of an out and back routing along a river.  Strategic holes with creative bunkering.  Probably some of the smallest bunkers most people have ever seen.  Think 4' x 4'.  good luck getting a tee time the day before or after a VT home game though. 


New Smyrna golf Club
One of Ross' last designs.  Fun greens and some of Florida's cheapest tee times.  Played on a quiet weekend this past winter basically uninterrupted. 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 10:53:02 PM by Cal Seifert »

Evan_Green

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #156 on: May 08, 2018, 12:10:11 AM »
Kahuku on the North Shore of Oahu!

Jeff Schley

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #157 on: May 08, 2018, 12:20:48 AM »
I really enjoy the Kankakee Elks Country Club about an hour South of Chicago in Kankakee, Ill.  My mom is from Kankakee and played there numerous times.  Wonderful old course, almost a 100 years old and a Langford/Moreau design.  Great memories of this place.

Small world.  My grandparents passed 4 and 10 years ago and were pretty much lifelong Kankakee residents.  I played this course last 3 years ago and will play again this summer when back in Chicago area visiting family.
Jeff,


Love Kankakee Elks.  My dad grew up in Kankakee (Bishop Mac) and grandparents lived in Bourbonnais until they passed.


So many strong holes and love the plateau par 3 on the back.  Good memories of one of my best competitive rounds there.


That would be an awesome course to restore.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

JReese

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #158 on: May 08, 2018, 11:06:52 AM »

http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/feature-interview-no-6-with-tom-doak/


In this GCA interview from a few years ago, TD lists Kankakee Elks as a course he would most like to restore. 

I really enjoy the Kankakee Elks Country Club about an hour South of Chicago in Kankakee, Ill.  My mom is from Kankakee and played there numerous times.  Wonderful old course, almost a 100 years old and a Langford/Moreau design.  Great memories of this place.


Jeff,


Love Kankakee Elks.  My dad grew up in Kankakee (Bishop Mac) and grandparents lived in Bourbonnais until they passed.


So many strong holes and love the plateau par 3 on the back.  Good memories of one of my best competitive rounds there.


That would be an awesome course to restore.
"Bunkers are not places of pleasure; they are for punishment and repentance." - Old Tom Morris

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #159 on: May 08, 2018, 01:36:42 PM »

http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/feature-interview-no-6-with-tom-doak/


In this GCA interview from a few years ago, TD lists Kankakee Elks as a course he would most like to restore. 

I really enjoy the Kankakee Elks Country Club about an hour South of Chicago in Kankakee, Ill.  My mom is from Kankakee and played there numerous times.  Wonderful old course, almost a 100 years old and a Langford/Moreau design.  Great memories of this place.


Jeff,


Love Kankakee Elks.  My dad grew up in Kankakee (Bishop Mac) and grandparents lived in Bourbonnais until they passed.


So many strong holes and love the plateau par 3 on the back.  Good memories of one of my best competitive rounds there.


That would be an awesome course to restore.

Indeed he did. As a relative new member I wasn't aware of that.  I doubt they could afford TD, much less the renovation, although I would be interested to hear what Tom or other architects on this site feel about the present state of this course.  What is needed to be restored?  Cost?

Knowing the course is owned by the Kankakee Elks Lodge non-profit and the area of Kankakee isn't exactly booming like it was in the 50-70's.  Love to see even a consultation given, if only online.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Rick Lane

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #160 on: May 08, 2018, 03:20:20 PM »
I grew up playing a hidden gem,  Ridgewood CC in Danbury CT, a Devereux Emmet, most of which is still there (When I-84 was built, they lost three holes, and G.Cornish made the 3 new ones, 10, 15 and 16).  Pretty hilly site, but neat routing, with some of the most severe greens I have played, especially 3,4,5.  11 has a cool thumbprint if memory serves. 
Here is a link to a cool history doc from their website:  https://www.ridgewoodcc.com/files/RCC_History%20%5B1%5D.pdf 
It mentions a 9 hole course on Deer Hill in Danbury that was 25 years before Ridgewood, which would put it about 1895.   Does anyone have any more info on that?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 03:25:25 PM by Rick Lane »

Ira Fishman

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #161 on: May 08, 2018, 08:32:11 PM »
Not the same lineage as last couple, but Hog Neck on Maryland Eastern Shore does not get as much attention as it should. Reasonably priced Public that has wide open and windy Front 9 and carved through woods Back. Good variety to holes and although Front has a lot of water, only one forced carry that I can remember. Plus cool backstory: widow of avid golfer donated land to County so that her husband’s love for game could be honored. There are not a lot of good golf reasons to go to Eastern Shore, but very relaxing location otherwise so if there, would give Hog Neck a go.


Ira

mike_beene

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #162 on: May 09, 2018, 10:11:52 PM »
This is the ADD post of the year, but is Kankakee the place the train pulls out of in "City of New Orleans"?

Jeff Schley

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #163 on: May 10, 2018, 01:07:16 AM »
This is the ADD post of the year, but is Kankakee the place the train pulls out of in "City of New Orleans"?

« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 01:17:40 AM by Jeff Schley »
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Carl Rogers

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #164 on: May 10, 2018, 09:23:55 AM »
Lake Lure southeast of Asheville, NC, a Ross 9 holer. Owner has done the geneolgy of the track.

[/size]It is definitely hidden, slow mountain drive.  Not sure if it is "gem". Cheap .... Rough around the edges ....Mom and Pop golf, some interesting use of terrain.  Be ready for a challenging walk.[size=78%]
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Andrew Buck

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #165 on: May 10, 2018, 09:29:13 AM »
RE: Kankakee Elks


Honestly, cut down most of the non-indigenous trees and start expanding mowing lines on Fairways and even greens with top dressing would make a huge difference. 


While the area won’t be able to financially support something over the top, there is no reason it can’t support this course to be a better version of itself.  Problem is 80% of the members and customers would likely view tree-lined fairways as a sign of quality.



Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #166 on: May 10, 2018, 12:22:02 PM »
Lake Lure southeast of Asheville, NC, a Ross 9 holer. Owner has done the geneolgy of the track.

It is definitely hidden, slow mountain drive.  Not sure if it is "gem". Cheap .... Rough around the edges ....Mom and Pop golf, some interesting use of terrain.  Be ready for a challenging walk.
[size=78%]


Lake Lure is a Stiles and Van Kleek, not a Ross.[/size]
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

JReese

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #167 on: May 10, 2018, 12:26:36 PM »

I'd be thrilled with just the tree removal.  Last time I was there a couple years ago, it looked like there were some trees marked for removal, but not sure if they ever were taken out.  Maybe if there was a ring leader and volunteer core a la Canal Shores, some improvements could be made on the cheap.  But like you said, the hard part would be getting buy-in from the local members/customers.

RE: Kankakee Elks


Honestly, cut down most of the non-indigenous trees and start expanding mowing lines on Fairways and even greens with top dressing would make a huge difference. 


While the area won’t be able to financially support something over the top, there is no reason it can’t support this course to be a better version of itself.  Problem is 80% of the members and customers would likely view tree-lined fairways as a sign of quality.
"Bunkers are not places of pleasure; they are for punishment and repentance." - Old Tom Morris

Andrew Buck

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #168 on: May 10, 2018, 01:04:39 PM »

I'd be thrilled with just the tree removal.  Last time I was there a couple years ago, it looked like there were some trees marked for removal, but not sure if they ever were taken out.  Maybe if there was a ring leader and volunteer core a la Canal Shores, some improvements could be made on the cheap.  But like you said, the hard part would be getting buy-in from the local members/customers.

RE: Kankakee Elks


Honestly, cut down most of the non-indigenous trees and start expanding mowing lines on Fairways and even greens with top dressing would make a huge difference. 


While the area won’t be able to financially support something over the top, there is no reason it can’t support this course to be a better version of itself.  Problem is 80% of the members and customers would likely view tree-lined fairways as a sign of quality.

The superintendent there and my dad (also a superintendent) played high school and college golf together, and he was quite a good player.  I'll try to find out of if he's been trying to take out some trees. 

Chris_Blakely

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #169 on: May 10, 2018, 02:06:29 PM »

I'd be thrilled with just the tree removal.  Last time I was there a couple years ago, it looked like there were some trees marked for removal, but not sure if they ever were taken out.  Maybe if there was a ring leader and volunteer core a la Canal Shores, some improvements could be made on the cheap.  But like you said, the hard part would be getting buy-in from the local members/customers.

RE: Kankakee Elks


Honestly, cut down most of the non-indigenous trees and start expanding mowing lines on Fairways and even greens with top dressing would make a huge difference. 


While the area won’t be able to financially support something over the top, there is no reason it can’t support this course to be a better version of itself.  Problem is 80% of the members and customers would likely view tree-lined fairways as a sign of quality.

The superintendent there and my dad (also a superintendent) played high school and college golf together, and he was quite a good player.  I'll try to find out of if he's been trying to take out some trees.


Is there any talk of restoring the abandoned Langford par 3?  The hole appears to just be sitting there ready to be restored?


Matt Frey, PGA

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #170 on: May 11, 2018, 05:34:49 PM »
I agree with Shelly...Brookside was one of the first courses that came to mind when I saw this thread. Also, going a few years back on this thread, Joe Bausch makes a great selection in Lebanon.

Here are some others for consideration:

Ausable, St. Huberts, New York (1888) - I am personally unaware of the person who laid the course out. It's a tremendously fun golf course that sits in the heart of the Adirondack's High Peak Region. From what I have seen in old aerials and photographs, it appears to remain relatively untouched since it's construction. Playing the course was a highlight of my 2017 season.

Buck Hill Falls, Buck Hill Falls, Pennsylvania (1907) - Based on information provided to me by a well-known GCA member, these golf holes were laid out by Samuel Allen and Charles Jenkins in 1907, and also had work done by Donald Ross in 1919, Robert White in 1926, Harry Drennen in 1954 and by the Gordons in 1957. Located in the Poconos, the holes lay on rolling, but in my opinion, not too extreme of terrain, providing golfers a variety of shots. It's another very fun course in my estimation.

Harker's Hollow, Phillipsburg, New Jersey (1929) - This Robert White golf course in Western New Jersey offers some tremendous holes, including the par-3s, which I especially enjoyed. Plus, it's a fantastic value.
 
Malone, Malone, New York (1936) - Full disclosure: I worked at Malone for two years as a PGA Assistant Professional. Malone has an interesting architectural history. Some people credit Donald Ross for the East Course's layout, but it's definitely not a Ross design. When the club moved from it's original location to it's present day site in 1936, Willard Wilkinson built the first nine holes, many of which are still in play (or maintained) today. Albert Murray came in a number of years later to expand the course to 18 holes, again, many of which are still playable today (across both the East and West courses). Robert Trent Jones Sr. was hired to expand the club to 36 holes in the 1980s and chose to keep some existing holes as well as build new holes as well. Overall, they are very fun golf courses, especially the original 18 holes.

Valley, Sugarloaf, Pennsylvania (1909) - Here's another course that has been worked on my numerous folks: George Markle / John Sharpless / L.D. Emerich / Dr. Casselberry / Dr. Gayley, A.W. Tillinghast, Geoffrey Cornish, and Ron Forse / Jim Nagle. From what I understand, most of what is left today (or restored) is from Tillinghast. It's a wonderful golf course in Northeastern Pennsylvania, that offers fun approach shots and tricky greens.

Wanango, Reno, Pennsylvania (1914) - I was told that Bendelow originally built this course with the help of H.C. Fownes...impressive! Tillinghast later came in and made his mark. I really enjoyed playing this Northwestern Pennsylvania course and the layout makes great use of the hilly terrain and has some wonderful greens.

Connor Dougherty

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Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #171 on: May 12, 2018, 02:11:46 AM »
The topic of hidden gem is always difficult to address because the definition itself is entirely dependent on what you consider hidden. I found this site because I played a "hidden gem" in Pasatiempo and discovered more about another "hidden gem" named Rustic Canyon on this site. The internet has made the world smaller but our passion for golf course architecture and ability to eloquently share why a course is good or not has diminished the number of courses that fit this category. With that in mind, I'm introducing two courses which I feel do not get discussion on either this site or in the general golf community. They are not courses I would recommend traveling to get to, but if in the area, should be considered for rounds.


Contra Costa CC (Pleasant Hill, CA) - Robert Trent Jones II
Full disclosure: I worked as an intern on the renovation here in 2014 by RTJII and my father is a member of the club. That being said, the club was an 18 hole AV Macan design, they only built 9 of Macan's holes (roughly where the front 9 is today) and then expanded to 18 in the 50's. In spite of Macan's lack of influence, the back is solid, with the highlight being the two-shot 11th, with a green that can play differently depending on the days pin location. That being said, the bread and butter of the course exists on the front. Macan had a par 3 where the green sat in the base of one of the barranca's, and while that has been lost, the 3rd is a stellar 4.5 par hole, with a shallow green and bunkering which mimics that of MacKenzie's work, the 5th, a short one-shotter with a reverse redan green, and the 6th, which, not including SFGC and Cal Club (since I have not seen either), is the best Par 5 I have seen in the Bay Area. Those hoping to reach the green in two have to hit a right-to-left shot that sneaks by the fairway bunker guarding the right, and then face an approach to a green which is guarded on the left by a greenside bunker and a barranca. Those laying up play a shot down to the valley 20-30 ft below, where they face a semi-blind approach up the hill to the green.


I always felt that Contra had the bones to be a great golf course, but it fell victim to a greens committee that had put in features which had no place on the golf course, and so much of it felt built up in spite of the routing. The focus of the renovation was to make the golf course feel like it fit into the landscape, much like Poppy Hill's renovation focused on getting rid of the most artificial of features. I still think there is some enlightenment to be had with the greens committee, the most egregious decision I saw during the redo was the greens committee's decision to keep a hawthorne tree, hardly a specimen, on the right of the 14th green, in spite of the fact that it diminished the playing characteristics of the hole AND blocked the view of Mt. Diablo on the 15th tee, but the redo by RTJII was terrific, and it was a great project to work on.


(on a side note, anyone wanting to see Contra Costa should send me a message. No promises as my dad, newly retired, travels quite a bit, but he's happy to show people around if I'm not in town)


Balboa Park (San Diego, CA) - William Bell
I am incredibly lucky to have lived the last 5 months less than a mile from Balboa, a William Bell design that opened in 1921. Admittedly, when I moved down here, my expectation was to take advantage of the local rates at Torrey, pop over to Barona every once in a while (which, I've been popping over to Barona much more during the week as their twilight rates are quite good, but that's beside the point). It just so happened that the first round I played down here was at Balboa, and in spite of it's short 6000 yard back tees, I was blown away. It's full of quirky, interesting holes, most notably the bunkerless 4th, where you play an iron off the tee and face a mid-length approach to a green benched into the hillside, but anything missed right of the green faces a brutally daunting up and down from well below the green.


However, what blows me away about Balboa isn't the wealth of half par holes or the quirky holes on the golf course, it's how well the routing takes advantage of the bluffs of the canyons and the valley. The first 5 holes work through the valley below, with the long par-3 6th creating the transition up to the top of the canyon, and while the 8th through 10th are rather bland golf holes, the rest of the back 9 works out on the fingers of the bluffs above the first 6th, reaching a climax with the par 5 16th, a dogleg left with a lateral hazard (the canyon) on the left and OB (property line and the end of the ridge) on the right. The hole features some of the best views of downtown San Diego and is downright thrilling. Other than Clear Creek (which uses the terrain to add length to the course to mitigate the altitude) it is one of the most ingenious routings I have ever seen, and a terrific use of space.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 03:37:34 PM by Connor Dougherty »
"The website is just one great post away from changing the world of golf architecture.  Make it." --Bart Bradley

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #172 on: May 12, 2018, 06:27:05 AM »
RE: Balboa


I’ve never played it but is the hole on the west end of the property that runs on a hilltop with what looks to be death on both sides as hard as it looks from the air? 


I fly into SAN many times a year and that hole just looks deadly.

Rick Lane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #173 on: May 12, 2018, 06:49:46 AM »
There is a golf course in Eagles Mere Pa, that a buddy took me to.  He was downtalking it as a “little fun course”.  As we played, I’m looking at the green pads and thinking, this is a special place.  I get to the shop and grab a scorecard, and it says William Flynn.

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What Are Your "Hidden Gems"?
« Reply #174 on: May 12, 2018, 08:48:13 PM »
I am JUST starting to update the list that Doug Wright compiled (page 2).  If you have any nominations, for consistency sake  please add city, architect and year of opening.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 01:40:17 AM by Pete_Pittock »