Rarity Mountain Dye Course

[Matt Varney]

Take a look at some images of The Dye Course at Rarity Mountain.  This course is designed by Pete & P.B. Dye in the mountains of Tennessee.  The bent grass is coming in very nicely and we are targeting an April 2009 course opening.  A website is in the works and will be coming soon.  Let me know your thoughts and comments?

http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn49/mdvarney/Dye%20Course%20June%202008/

If you like these wait until you see the back 9 once it is finish shaped and grassed.

MDV

[Kirk Gill]

This shot looks like a bear. Could you tell me more about this hole?

[Chris_Clouser]

Kirk,

That does look like a tough shot, but if I were to guess I would say it is a par five and that is the second shot if you want to go for the green.  My guess is the landing area short and in the fairway below is fairly easy to find. 

A lot of those holes look like things you can see at The Fort here in Indy with a few of the holes looking like they have some Dye typical hole characteristics.
Some of the shaping looks like what we saw in the photos of the French lick course yesterday on that thread.

[Matt Varney]

That image is #4 fairway a short par 5 about 500 yards and that is the view to tempt you to go for the green.  It looks more intimidating than it really is in person.  You can flip down the fairway about 175 yards and have a 75 yard shot over that big bunker fronting the green.

The Dye's create really visually stimulating holes that scale well with the size of our property.  The views are big and long so holes seem much bigger and tighter in places than they really are when you actually are hitting the ball.

[Adam Russell]

Really liked the way #2 is toned down, shaping-wise. #5 got a great view on the green. My only problem is the cart paths. I haven't seen paths stick out this much since Engh's Creek Club. #4's path has more interesting curves and lines than the hole does. Concrete paths in southern locales just stick out like sore thumbs. But some designers never learn...

[Matt Varney]

Adam,

We are 10 months from opening the golf course and these are progress images.  You are going to see some cart paths at any upscale resort course becasue the majority of your players use carts when paying $100+ to play the course. 

Our superintendent is really good and he will create many native grass areas on the slopes and mounding around the bunkers that will hide many of the cart paths.  It just takes time for the look to come together really nice with all the grasses and doing the best you can to hide things like cart paths.

What would suggest using for cart paths?  I am just curious since you might have some better suggestions.  BTW - The Dye's don't make the final decision about the material we use for cart paths that is up to us the developer.  Loose aggregate material can look nice but it also has problems with washouts and settling creating low wet collection areas in your paths.

[Adam Russell]

Matt- pervious concrete or a liquid soil stabilizer. Pervious can last between 20-40 years. and the gaps between the rocks dull the sharpness of solid concrete that makes the standard paths stick out so much from the landscape. It only bugs me because the starkness of the paths dilutes the design, and even though the developer may handle the issue, it should be something a designer has input on. Surely Pete's got the pull to say "hey, these paths here.." Parts of the design look fantastic , but then the eye goes immediately to the cart path. Which sucks, because the design/build crew's work gets diminished. But I've seen these paths before like this on other Dye courses- perhaps they always leave it up to someone else.. it's either not caring or not thinking, and that just irks me. Why should someone else (the super) have to create distractions for the path? It's the designer's job...

That's my little design tangent for the night, Matt- I hope your course cracks top ten in TN, and no one but me notices the paths. 

[Doug Ralston]

Matt;

Try not to take the cartpath comments too seriously here. There is an obsession that trancends reality about golf and walking. As you know, being in Tennessee, mountain golf must include carts, period.

I showed a great picture of a hole from Eagle Ridge [KY] once, and all they could say was 'OMG, cartpath!!!'. They could not tell me where else the path could be, since it was into a valley and no other placement was available. They could not find negative things to say about the hole other than the CP lament. It was a little irking ....  . ER is a course less than 1% of golfers would walk, and I doubt any would walk twice.

It looks like Rarity Mountain will be somewhat more walkable, but most will still want/need carts. Reality intrudes.

Matt, I look forward to the opening. We are not wealthy, but will pay $100+ to play a Dye mountain course. Thanks for your ongoing info on the course.

Doug

[Matt Varney]

Doug,

Thanks for your commnets we have to have cart paths to make the flow work for pace of play.  Send me an e-mail with your contact info so I can contact and we will go out and play the course this fall before the opening in April 2009.  Just you, me and couple of my friends no one else on the course so that you can get a feel for the place.

The course has a couple slopes and grades so walking all 18 holes could be tough not impossible but you would be tired.  Riding the cart path and enjoying nature and the long views are waht make the course so nice.

Matt

[Lawrence Largent]

Where is the course located off of I-75 or I-40?   How far is it from Knoxville?

[Doug Ralston]

Where is the course located off of I-75 or I-40?   How far is it from Knoxville?

The course is off I-75 just south of the Kentucky border. Beautiful mountain area.

Doug

[Matt Varney]

Lawrence,

The course is located off I-75 Exit 156 Rarity Mountain Road in Jellico, Tennessee.  Driving it takes me about 45 from downtown Knoxville going North on 75 towards Kentucky.  The Dye Course is just one part of a resort residential mountain development.  We have 5,000 acres and we are building a tournament sporting clays facility.

 

[Adam Russell]

Wait a second, just because I said the cart path sticks out and directes the eye immediately to it on a long-range view par-5, then I'm wacky anti-cart guy who doesn't know what he's talking about?

Doug, I'm from Georgia, and realize the need for cart paths for mountain golf courses in TN - although the fact that you believe mountain courses MUST have carts is silly. What I'm saying is that if you put the path right there on #4, there's no way to feasibly hide that. If you want a solution, just off the picture, route the path to the left with pervious concrete, like I stated above, then you won't have to worry about collection areas on paths, and the closeness to the ditch will offer a more believable opportunity to screen it. Then the hole strategically plays better, because it offers more people a chance to bail right, so that the third shot from the  right rough is more manageable, instead of the blind to semi-blind third shot from the middle right to far left side of the fairway after a tough downhill second shot for the average resort golfer, which is my other problem with the hole. That good enough for you? The fact that someone can't ask why and critique here is ridiculous. #4 is a bad connecting hole through a valley. And the path made it worse. As bad as it is, #2 looks just that good.

Matt- I'm not a jerk who just bashes people when they post here. I think you're course will be successful. I know there wasn't an invitation extended to me, but I would love to play the course with you when it opens. Perhaps I could walk...

[Doug Ralston]

Wait a second, just because I said the cart path sticks out and directes the eye immediately to it on a long-range view par-5, then I'm wacky anti-cart guy who doesn't know what he's talking about?

Doug, I'm from Georgia, and realize the need for cart paths for mountain golf courses in TN - although the fact that you believe mountain courses MUST have carts is silly. What I'm saying is that if you put the path right there on #4, there's no way to feasibly hide that. If you want a solution, just off the picture, route the path to the left with pervious concrete, like I stated above, then you won't have to worry about collection areas on paths, and the closeness to the ditch will offer a more believable opportunity to screen it. Then the hole strategically plays better, because it offers more people a chance to bail right, so that the third shot from the  right rough is more manageable, instead of the blind to semi-blind third shot from the middle right to far left side of the fairway after a tough downhill second shot for the average resort golfer, which is my other problem with the hole. That good enough for you? The fact that someone can't ask why and critique here is ridiculous. #4 is a bad connecting hole through a valley. And the path made it worse. As bad as it is, #2 looks just that good.

Matt- I'm not a jerk who just bashes people when they post here. I think you're course will be successful. I know there wasn't an invitation extended to me, but I would love to play the course with you when it opens. Perhaps I could walk...

Adam;

I am sorry! You are right, I have become reactionary about how certain ideas are treated here, and I instantly assumed you to be part of the reason. My Bad! 

Doug

[Adam Russell]

Doug- Whew, I feel good again. It's funny how people here put other people in certain camps just based on words. I do it way too much myself. Just a sidenote, are you from TN?

[Doug Ralston]

Doug- Whew, I feel good again. It's funny how people here put other people in certain camps just based on words. I do it way too much myself. Just a sidenote, are you from TN?

Adam;

I lived in Nashville and then Knoxville for 35 years, moved to Kentucky for 5 years, and am now in Cincinnati, OH. But I do a large percentage of my golfing in Kentucky, far the most underrated state for public golf, IMHO.

I am a mountain person [hillbilly?] by birth and proclivity. I love good mountain courses, and being on a great and beautiful course is far more satisfying to me than shooting a great score [which ain't gonna happen anyway  ].

Adam; where is your home?

Doug

[Andy Troeger]

Have to admit I didn't even notice the cart path the first time I looked at the picture. What's that line: "what we see depends mainly upon what we look for."

It is fairly obvious I suppose once I looked again, but the only issue I have I guess is having balls bounce off it into the right hand trouble. That's always a frustration no matter how well the cart path is actually hidden.

[Matt Varney]

Its funny how you guys pick up on the cart path.  I also agree the path is very visible and hard to hide based on its placement.  One idea that we thought of after this path had been poured was to route the path up into the trees along the left side beyond the stone creekbed.  This would have allowed the path to be somewhat hidden and then carts would have traveled up above the green to get to #5 tee.

Things like this can easily be fixed it just takes money to rip it out and repour concrete if the path becomes an issue down the road.  I like this short par 5 hole but not nearly as good as the other ones on the course that are being built.  If this is the worst hole we have we will have done a great job on the course. 

[Andy Troeger]

Matt,
I agree, looks like a fun hole to try for in two. Good luck with the development of the course; its not close to me in Albuquerque but it looks like something I'd like to play down the road. My grandparents used to live between Nashville and Knoxville but now live in Indiana so I'll need a better excuse to visit the area, but so it goes!