[Matt_Ward]

Had the pleasure in returning to Shawnee -- the first A.W. Tillinghast designed layout located in the Poconos just off I-80 in Pennsy right over the state line w Jersey.

Been some time since I last played the layout but I was pleasantly surprised with a few of the things I personally saw.

More will follow -- but I will say this -- Shawnee is clearly showing efforts in trying to restore a good bit of its luster. It's not there right this second but it's clearly shaking off the dust of the past and trying to excite golfers the way it used to from years and years ago.

[Andy Hughes]

Matt, I look forward to your comments. Like you, I played there years ago (I imagine we overlapped some in the early 80s?). The course was not all it could be by a long stretch when I was last there 20 something years ago--I have such fond memories of the place I have always hoped it could regain some former glory.

Any chance you actually took some pictures this time? (yeah, I realize that's not likely)

PS Matt, you do realize you are on the verge of saying something nice about Poconos golf?  I can't wait for Mike C. to find out 

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

Now, don't go making me feel obliged to say something nice about the Poconos. 

Shawnee certainly has its moments and it's good to see it back.

More will follow ...

[Mike_Cirba]

There is probably less Tillinghast remaining at Shawnee than there is Macdonald remaining at Merion. 

[Matt_Ward]

For those who may not know -- Shawnee represented the first design by A.W. Tillinghast and the start of his spectacular career.

Shawnee represents today 27 holes -- although, if memory serves, only 18 are claimed by Tillinghast -- the remaining nine, again, if memory serves, was brought forward by a past owner Fred Waring (the noted band leader) - although he was not the founder of the club.

The three nines are named the following:

Worthington (in tribute to the original owner Charles C. Worthington)
Tillinghast
Waring

The first two nines represent the Tillinghast contribution, if memory serves.

I had first played Shawnee over 30 years ago and back then this grand dame was starting to lose its appeal. Much of the fanfare was tied to the 1938 PGA Championship (a win by Paul Runyan over Sam Snead) and the 1967 NCAA Championship won by Hale Irwin.

One of the more daunting tasks faced by the facility is its proximity to the Delaware River and the fact that the property is literally surrounded by water. Massive floods have happened -- the most recent taking place in early July 2006 -- the waters rose to a height of several feet and literally made the entire facility a modern day equivalent of Venice - the 3rd most damaging storm in more than a century - water crested at some 32 feet, 11 feet aboce flood stage.

Since that time Shawnee through the desire of its most recent owner -- the Kirkwood family --has made a major effort to rejuvenate not only the golf but provide an entertainment oasis without having such a spillover that in years past had the appeal of a circus run wild.

There are a number of interesting holes at the course and I'll get into them shortly. It's important to remember what Shawnee has faced and while it cannot at the time be placed in the same category with such other comparable facilities as The Balsams, Cramwell or the Equinox, it is most certainly further along than I thought possible and given my penchant for embracing Poconos golf that says something to at least me.

[Ian Larson]

I spent a few years working down the road as the asst. superintendent at the Nicklaus Great Bear Golf and Country Club. I loved playing at Shawnee, its a special place. If anyone ever goes, stop at the Minnisink Hotel for a lager. I believe Arnie met Winnie at Hotel at Shawnee....

[Mark Bourgeois]

Matt, Andy, Mike, Ian, et al

Is the property flat?  How did Tillinghast address this design problem?

Are antecedents and inspirations for Winged Foot to be found there, either today or originally?

As his first course, did Tilly establish any design elements or themes?

Thanks,
Mark

[Phil_the_Author]

Mark,

You asked, "Is the property flat?  How did Tillinghast address this design problem? Are antecedents and inspirations for Winged Foot to be found there, either today or originally? As his first course, did Tilly establish any design elements or themes?"

The course had several holes on the mainland side by the Buckwood Inn with the bulk of it rambling across the Binniekill on the island. Though the land seems flat in a number of photos from the day, it really did contain many gentle rolls and slight elevation changes, thus allowing for a number of the greens to pitch at angles.

No, I wouldn't say that it served as an inspiration for Winged Foot or other of his great works because, as a designer Tilly didn't think that way and even from this first course he simply designed and routed based upon what the land gave him. It is in that sense that it serves as inspiration for his later works. The par-threes were quite distinctive, especially the famous "Binniekill hole" with the green on the other side of the water. It was most dramatic for its day.

Part of the unique aspects in this designthat set it apart from other designs and made his work immediately noteworthy was how he used features from the UK designs he enjoyed years before. Yet these weren't true "template" type holes, something that Tilly took great pains to avoid throughout his career. For example, there was a wonderful punchbowl and Shawnee was the first course in America to use "mis-Surrey" style moundings on a number of holes.

Unfortunately, when it was expanded to 27 holes, a good portion of Tilly's work was destroyed. We are hoping that in the latest round of work that is being contemplated that the ownership will give strong consideration to restoring as much of Tilly's work as can happen...

[Matt_Ward]

Mark:

To answer your question -- the present property has a few rolls of note but nothing on the order of the word hilly.

No doubt the placement of the property bracketed by water on both sides and given the surge of water from the Delaware during storm will continually have an impact on what happens there.

In regards to what elements Tillie carried forward -- you will see a number of greens at Shawnee that are pitched and sloped in a variety of directions. The first hole on the Worthington nine plays only 373 yards but the green is neatly angled and sloped upwards so that the approach must be sufficiently high enough to carry the fronting ridge but be soft enough to stay on the putting surface.

The ending hole on the Tillinghast nine is a stout 231 yard par-3 and the green is also pitched rather savagely from back to front.

[Mike Sweeney]

Unfortunately, when it was expanded to 27 holes, a good portion of Tilly's work was destroyed. We are hoping that in the latest round of work that is being contemplated that the ownership will give strong consideration to restoring as much of Tilly's work as can happen...

Matt,

I played it 2-3 years ago with my son. It is a perfectly nice course in a nice location. however as Philip mentions, I just did not see much Tilly left out there unless they have done MAJOR work since then.

No need to go hole by hole, because I just don't remember much other than the par 3 over the river.

PS. Be careful, you are about to defend The Poconos!

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

You're right !

My God -- I'm turning into a defender of the Poconos -- the next thing you know I'll be defending the "look" over "subtsance" of courses in general.

Good grief indeed !

[tlavin]

Mike:

You're right !

My God -- I'm turning into a defender of the Poconos -- the next thing you know I'll be defending the "look" over "subtsance" of courses in general.

Good grief indeed !

Do you mean the hypothetical "Return to Bashing Matt Ward!" thread??? 

[Matt_Ward]

Terry:

Hey, it's my birthday today so I hope people will be a bit respectful.

The return to bashing can take place tomorrow !

[D_Malley]

Situated on the beautiful grounds of The Shawnee Inn and Golf Resort, the Tillinghast Approach Course offers 9 par 3 holes of varying length. Our approach course offers the novice golfer an opportunity to build confidence and develop their game, while providing the more experienced golfer a chance to test their short game skills.

Lighted for night play, the approach course is not only unique but also, a great after dinner or early evening activity. Six of the nine holes are located throughout the driving range, while the other three holes are part of the Tillinghast Golf Academy and used for lessons and schools concentrating on short game instruction.

Each of the nine holes are modeled after the greens and bunkering from other famous Tillinghast designed golf courses including the San Francisco Golf Club, Winged Foot and Baltusrol.

above from shawnee website

i read in a newspaper ad that this was designed by Tom Doak.  does anyone have any further info on this "approach Course" with greens modeled in a Tilly style?

[Matt_Ward]

Racetrack:

The short course is quite unique but it's a pain that you can't play the entire nine when the driving range is open during the day. I like a few of the holes that Doak did because they embrace a good bit of the Tillie design style. One in particular -- believe it's the 8th is really good with the frontal bunker pushed in tight similar to what you see at Winged Foot.

[Andy Hughes]

Matt, happy 29th 

Have there been 27 holes for a long time? I was certainly pretty clueless as a teen back then, but I only remember 18 holes. First hole had a stream fronting the green, followed by a par 3 over the water, and then the last hole was that beast of a par 3 that called for a pretty good poke with persimmon.

What exactly was lost when the the last 9 holes were added? Phil, maybe you have a handle on that?

PS Matt, any idea why Shawnee brags about hosting the PGA in the 1930s and the NCAAs in the 1960s, but neglects to mention the Centennial League championships in the 1980s? It strikes me as a glaring omission. 

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

Couple of quick points ...

The short course is a good addition but it's not at the level of places like Hamilton Farm or clearly Augusta. Doak did a nice job but it could use some additional tweaking on the conditioning side of things. I am not thrilled that the driving range prevents the complete usage of the 9-holes during day time periods.

The Waring Nine came into existence years ago and really starts at the far southern portion of the property. The first hole you mentioned starts the Worthington Nine and is a really good opener despite the short yardage.

Geeze, didn't know about the Centennial League -- you should contact the club and let them know of the omission. I'm sure they will be holding their collective breath to receive this critical piece of history for their archives.

[Andy Hughes]

Matt, were you intending to discuss changes to the course or specific improvements?

[Matt_Ward]

Andy, et al:

To the credit of Shawnee the overall turf conditions are quite good from what I observed. The holes, while not uniformly above average, have their moments. The 1st on the Worthington Nine is very good for a short par-4 under 400 yards and the 1st on the Tillinghast nine -- a stout par-4 of 441 yards -- is extremely well done.

No doubt the place could use some real TLC in edging the traps and fine tuning the cuts around the greens. Overall, Shawnee is attemtping to upgrade itself -- it's not there yet but it's far better than the last time I was there which was eons ago.

I'll post more later ...

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