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Doug Siebert

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Caddie or cart, same price
« on: June 02, 2008, 11:55:16 PM »
In reading another thread I checked The Harvester's web site (yes, its the one with the "Big Hog" hole that is self-described as one you can't wait to finish so you don't have to play it again) and they have something new for 2008.  During the summer you can get a caddie for "free".  Well, "free" in the sense that their normal rate includes a cart and you don't pay any extra for the caddie other than their recommended scale for tipping.

Most importantly they have one bag per caddie instead of this two bag crap many places do now under which circumstance I will NEVER hire a caddie.  Obviously these aren't going to be the career caddies who know the course like the back of your hand, though I wouldn't be surprised if some of them aren't Iowa State golfers working/playing there over the summer so they'd probably do a better job than most caddies I've had just from their own golfing ability.

Its only Sunday-Thursday, you can't get them on the higher priced Friday and Saturday, and you have to call in advance.  Still, that's something I'm rather surprised to see on a daily fee course in Iowa.

http://www.harvestergolf.com/golf/caddie.html
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Bruce Leland

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie or cart, same price
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2008, 12:23:45 AM »
We've got a cart or  a caddie, caddie'd be good for you!
"The mystique of Muirfield lingers on. So does the memory of Carnoustie's foreboding. So does the scenic wonder of Turnberry and the haunting incredibility of Prestwick, and the pleasant deception of Troon. But put them altogether and St. Andrew's can play their low ball for atmosphere." Dan Jenkins

Art Roselle

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Re: Caddie or cart, same price
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2008, 09:26:37 AM »

Most importantly they have one bag per caddie instead of this two bag crap many places do now under which circumstance I will NEVER hire a caddie. 

Really?  You would rather ride than suffer the inconvenience of a two bag caddy (or do you just carry your own)?

My experience is if you want to support a legitimate caddy program, then you either need extremely wealthy customers, who do not mind paying a very high price per bag, or you need to allow the caddies to take two bags.  The ability to get "paid double" is what keeps most of the caddies interested in the job.  It allows the player to pay a reasonable rate while still getting the caddy an acceptable daily wage.

Most courses have a hard time keeping enough caddies around for the players who might want them, while still getting two loops in for any one caddy.  So, most of them only have one round per day and $40 or $50 is not enough to keep them out there day after day.  $80 or $100 is and so you either have to charge that for one bag (which most people won't pay) or let them carry double.

I have found that two bags works fine and I would rather deal with that and have a healthy caddy program, then insist on singles and find it failing.

The big exception would be if clubs or courses would go back to letting younger kids caddy.  I know that some places still do this (mainly in the Northeast), but I have found it to be less and less common.  It is a great summer job for a kid and a great way to introduce him or her to the game, but it seems that a lot of players want a "higher end" caddy and not a kid that might screw some things up.  You can pay kids a whole lot less and have them all carry singles and they don't mind the seasonal nature of the job.  Most child labor laws exempt caddying, although there is still an age limit in most states (usually around 14). 

However, if you want adults who are experienced "professional" caddies, you generally need to let them carry double or pay them through the nose.

Dave_Miller

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Re: Caddie or cart, same price
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2008, 09:51:08 AM »

 
My experience is if you want to support a legitimate caddy program, then you either need extremely wealthy customers, who do not mind paying a very high price per bag, or you need to allow the caddies to take two bags.  The ability to get "paid double" is what keeps most of the caddies interested in the job.  It allows the player to pay a reasonable rate while still getting the caddy an acceptable daily wage.

 .

I have found that two bags works fine and I would rather deal with that and have a healthy caddy program, then insist on singles and find it failing.

The big exception would be if clubs or courses would go back to letting younger kids caddy.  I know that some places still do this (mainly in the Northeast), but I have found it to be less and less common.  It is a great summer job for a kid and a great way to introduce him or her to the game, but it seems that a lot of players want a "higher end" caddy and not a kid that might screw some things up.  You can pay kids a whole lot less and have them all carry singles and they don't mind the seasonal nature of the job.  Most child labor laws exempt caddying, although there is still an age limit in most states (usually around 14). 

 

My preference is for the younger caddies.  After a few loops they start to understand and are very helpful.  I also don't mind helping a new caddie learn.  When I caddied someone helped me.  We need to keep the young blood coming into the game.  Too many times older caddies think they know everything about your game after one hole and try and impose too much of their wishes on you
Best
Dave

Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

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Re: Caddie or cart, same price
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2008, 09:57:31 AM »
We don't have any "Cart Fees" or "Caddie Fees" here on The Ocean Course.  It's all included in your green fee.  However, you don't have to tip carts... ;D  You can also carry your own bag here.  We don't care how you play, as long as you come here to play!!! 8)

Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie or cart, same price
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2008, 09:59:18 AM »
In reading another thread I checked The Harvester's web site (yes, its the one with the "Big Hog" hole that is self-described as one you can't wait to finish so you don't have to play it again) and they have something new for 2008.  During the summer you can get a caddie for "free".  Well, "free" in the sense that their normal rate includes a cart and you don't pay any extra for the caddie other than their recommended scale for tipping.

Most importantly they have one bag per caddie instead of this two bag crap many places do now under which circumstance I will NEVER hire a caddie.  Obviously these aren't going to be the career caddies who know the course like the back of your hand, though I wouldn't be surprised if some of them aren't Iowa State golfers working/playing there over the summer so they'd probably do a better job than most caddies I've had just from their own golfing ability.

Its only Sunday-Thursday, you can't get them on the higher priced Friday and Saturday, and you have to call in advance.  Still, that's something I'm rather surprised to see on a daily fee course in Iowa.

http://www.harvestergolf.com/golf/caddie.html
Doug, you'd rather pay a young 'bag carrier' $30 tip + your greenfee than take a very good 'caddie' and pay him $70-80? Sounds like you'd be paying about the same and getting a lot less service - even if the experienced caddie was double bagging.

Your philosophy of NEVER taking caddies when they are double bagging also rules you out of playing many of the very high end, highly ranked golf courses in this country that DEMAND you take caddies.

I guess you could always request a single caddie but most caddie masters are going to tell you the rate for that is the same as if he was carrying two.
Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie or cart, same price
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2008, 10:02:58 AM »
Same price?  Caddie is an easy decision.  The two bag system can work OK provided the players sharing the caddie work together a little.

I'm in agreement with Dave.  I have no problem with younger caddies.  They are far less likely to try to impose their wishes. 

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie or cart, same price
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2008, 02:18:21 PM »
I'm in agreement with Dave.  I have no problem with younger caddies.  They are far less likely to try to impose their wishes. 

John:
Knew you were a bright guy ;D ;)
Hope all is well
Dave

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie or cart, same price
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2008, 03:12:30 PM »
Doug,

I'm surprised by that development too.  I wonder how it will fare.  Some people may try it for the novelty, but can it be sustained?  Carts are pretty ingrained in Iowa, in my experience.  My in-laws play at a club in Cedar Rapids where the course is as flat as they come, with minimal distances between greens and tees, and everyone rides. 

I played some golf in Iowa, including The Harvester, last July and my thinking on carts changed somewhat.  I'm an avid walker, but in the hot, humid Iowa summer, I was drenched with sweat after playing Finkbine in Iowa City.  I played Finkbine with a fellow Denverite, but we played The Harvester the next day with some Iowa residents and they couldn't believe we had walked Finkbine. 

John Mayhugh

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Re: Caddie or cart, same price
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2008, 08:23:41 PM »
I'm in agreement with Dave.  I have no problem with younger caddies.  They are far less likely to try to impose their wishes. 

John:
Knew you were a bright guy ;D ;)
Hope all is well
Dave
I'm just sucking up for the next time I participate in a rule waiving incident.  ;)

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie or cart, same price
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2008, 09:10:12 PM »
When we held the first Dixie Cup at Cuscowilla in 2004, the wonderful deal for our 48 players - probably helped draw that many, a GCA record I think - was $99 per night double occupancy, which included a round of golf with either caddie or cart AND the room charge!

When we returned in 2007 I was hoping............but no way, Cuscowilla is now a big success.  Good for them but disappointing for us.

Doug Siebert

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Re: Caddie or cart, same price
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2008, 02:03:15 AM »
Doug, you'd rather pay a young 'bag carrier' $30 tip + your greenfee than take a very good 'caddie' and pay him $70-80? Sounds like you'd be paying about the same and getting a lot less service - even if the experienced caddie was double bagging.

Your philosophy of NEVER taking caddies when they are double bagging also rules you out of playing many of the very high end, highly ranked golf courses in this country that DEMAND you take caddies.

I guess you could always request a single caddie but most caddie masters are going to tell you the rate for that is the same as if he was carrying two.


If I was lucky enough to get a chance to play at some top tier place like NGLA or whatever and a caddie was required or my host strongly suggested I should take one then I'd go along with it if they insisted on double bagging, though I'd probably inquire about paying extra to get a caddie to myself...if I'm playing somewhere I might never get a chance to play again an extra $50 or $60 isn't really going to be a big issue.

I'd still prefer to carry my own bag and tip someone else's caddie who could help me out for 15 seconds on each hole before I tee off - "how far to that bunker",  "what's beyond that hill to the left" kind of stuff that a strokesaver could answer, but I'm guessing those places don't have strokesavers.

I'd add that I'd be all for getting a younger caddie.  I haven't ever had a really "good" caddie like the ones I hear people talk about who know every break on every green and can tell you what club to use in every situation after watching three practice swings anyway.  I just want a guy who can carry my bag, keep my grips dry if it rains, tell me the yardage, answer questions about the course, and warn me about things I should ask about but don't.  I don't want someone to club me or read greens for me even if he can do it better than me, I'm playing the game not him!
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie or cart, same price
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2008, 02:15:50 AM »
Doug,

I'm surprised by that development too.  I wonder how it will fare.  Some people may try it for the novelty, but can it be sustained?  Carts are pretty ingrained in Iowa, in my experience.  My in-laws play at a club in Cedar Rapids where the course is as flat as they come, with minimal distances between greens and tees, and everyone rides. 

I played some golf in Iowa, including The Harvester, last July and my thinking on carts changed somewhat.  I'm an avid walker, but in the hot, humid Iowa summer, I was drenched with sweat after playing Finkbine in Iowa City.  I played Finkbine with a fellow Denverite, but we played The Harvester the next day with some Iowa residents and they couldn't believe we had walked Finkbine. 


Tim,

I never have a problem walking Finkbine in the summer but there are always some who are amazed I walk and think I don't take a cart because I'm cheap or because I'm trying to get exercise.  But those people would be equally amazed if I walked some dead flat course too, I'm sure.

To be honest when it is really hot and humid (like heat index over 95) I just don't play, not because I can't walk but simply because I can't play anymore because my hands sweat and it makes keeping a firm hold on the club difficult.  Yeah, I could wear a golf glove, but if its the point where I can't hold onto the club well I figure that's a sign it is too damn hot for golf, whether I'm walking or riding :)  I'll go for a bike ride instead, sweaty hands aren't a problem there!

I think a lot of it is just becoming acclimated to the heat.  Early in the season when it hasn't been that warm and I'm not used to it the first really hot and humid days really beat me down and I feel like I've played 36 after finishing a round, but once I get used to it it seems much nicer and temperatures that seemed oppressive before seem much more tolerable.  That's probably also why 55 degrees seems like reasonable golf weather in March but is just stupidly cold in November!
My hovercraft is full of eels.

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