[Greg Clark]

I'm going to the Gaylord, MI area in a few weeks for a golf buddy trip.  As play starts at 1:30pm on Thursday, and I'm traveling from Dallas, I am flying into Traverse City at 2pm on Wednesday June 18th.  Lacking flight delays I should be able to get a round in that evening, and maybe a second early Thursday morning (probably optimistic).

My question is if you had just the one round to play would you pick The Kingsley Club or Arcadia Bluffs, and why?   I'm leaning towards The Kingsley Club, but am open to suggestions from the tree house.  Obviously the no brainer is Crystal Downs if that were an option. 

I would welcome the chance of meeting and playing with anyone that was interested as well.  Many thanks in advance.

[Bill_McBride]

I was there last summer and found Kingsley Club to be much better overall than Arcadia Bluffs, with the exception of the views over Lake Michigan from AB.  The greens are better and more interesting at Kingsley, the routing not as Byzantine.  The short par 4 (#14 I think?) is more fun than any hoie on AB.

KIngsley Club is also private but not as private as Crystal Downs.  Crystal was the most fun of the four we played, with Kingsley #2, Forest Dunes strong #3, and Arcadia #4.  There's some great golf in the area and the weather in July was terrific.

[PThomas]

I agree with Bill's rankings Greg...Kingsley is VERY good!

[Jeff_Mingay]

Kingsley is very good, Greg. If you have a chance to play there, it's a great choice. Crystal Downs is a hike from Traverse City, even if it is an option.

For convenience and quality, I recommend High Pointe.

[Tom_Doak]

Thanks for the recommendation, Jeff.  I was at High Pointe on Friday and it's in reasonable shape -- too much poa annua, mowing lines out of whack, but reasonable conditions for golf.

Arcadia Bluffs is 1 hour and 15 minutes from Traverse City, if that's a factor.

[Mike_Cirba]

I highly, highly recommend Kingsley, which is delightful, and although I certainly haven't played all of the top courses there, I can't imagine you'd be disappointed.

On a previous trip to NM, my biggest disappointment is that a big storm came through our last day...travel day..and we never made it to High Pointe.

I'm planning to go back in August and even though HP isn't on my itinerary, that's a situation I'm hoping to rectify one afternoon.   I'm also hoping to play Arcadia Bluffs.

[Brian Cenci]

You're not going to go wrong with Arcadia or Kingsley.  They are both top notch, each one having their own merits.  I know a lot of people on this site look down upon Arcadia but its world class golf.  I just played both two weeks ago and enjoyed them as always.  For one round Kingsley may be tough because it is the type of place you need to play a few times to get the overall feel and really appreciate the course.  The greens are amazing and can be frustrating for first timers.  Overall Kingsley is top notch though.  Really, you're not going to go wrong with either.  The more I travel across this country playing great golf courses the more I realize that Michigan has some darn good courses that don't get a lot of pub.

[Greg Clark]

Thanks for the responses so far guys.  I was contemplating trying to get out on High Pointe early Thursday morning.  How long of a drive time is that to the Treetops facility?

The guys I'm playing with are good fellas and decent golfers, but not huge architecture devotees (I move them a bit in that direction each year).  I was able to get them to drive a bit to Roscommon on this go round so we are playing Forest Dunes.  Other courses are the Fazio, Jones, Smith (Signature), and par 3 course at Treetops, Black Forest and The Tribute at Ostego.  Any thoughts on The Tribute?  I don't have huge expectations for the Treetops courses, so hopefully I will be pleasantly suprised.

Tom, I have read several comments over the years on this site from you speaking fondly like a first papa in regards to High Pointe.  Not as many comments on Black Forest.  Any thoughts from you that I could pass on to the troops while playing would be greatly appreciated.  Many thanks.

[PThomas]

Other courses are the Fazio, Jones, Smith (Signature), and par 3 course at Treetops, Black Forest and The Tribute at Ostego.  Any thoughts on The Tribute?  I don't have huge expectations for the Treetops courses, so hopefully I will be pleasantly suprised.

Black Forest is quite cool and definitely worth playing

at Treetops I liked the Smith course better than the Fazio, and both of them definitely more than the Jones...i think you might be pleasantly surprised at Treetops

the par 3 course is also worth it if you have a little extra time, but i wouldn't play it at the expense of any of the above

[John Foley]

Greg,

IMHO Arcadia is very good and while Kingsley is a special place, it can hold it's own.

See the following  for some good pics from last week on Treetops.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,34724.0.html

Let us know what you think (about both Treetops & Forest Dunes) as I'm interested in what the rest of us crazies think.

[cary lichtenstein]

For 1 round only, my choice would be Acadia Bluffs

[Tim Book]

I can't speak about Kingsley because I didn't get to play there on either of my trips to the UP, however I would consider a post round sunset dinner on the deck @ Arcadia one of golf's greatest treasures.

[John_Cullum]

So what are some of the better courses around Gaylord? A good friend of mine just took his RV up there for the summer, and he sometimes asks me if I know of anything.

[john_stiles]

For one round,  which do you like  ?   

Black Forest or High Pointe.

[Tom_Doak]

Greg:

High Pointe to Treetops is about an hour and fifteen minutes, in the other direction from Arcadia Bluffs.

I am still fond of my first born, even though its condition has really suffered through the years -- they've had about 10 head pros and 10 superintendents in 21 years of operation!  They don't ask my input much, and it's hard to go out there sometimes and see what new little thing they've done differently.  It could use a good restoration, if only we knew more of the designer's original intent.    But it's still pretty fun to play, and it's still one of the best sets of greens I've ever built.

Black Forest is a very difficult course, per the client's request, but I think I overdid it ... it was a beautiful, wooded property, and if we'd just backed off a bit on the greens (small and severe), I think it would still be considered one of my half-dozen best courses.  The first five holes are a brutal start and frustrate many golfers so thoroughly that they fail to make up for it in the rest of the course, which in fact offers many birdie opportunities.  My advice would be to play the par fives conservatively, accept a couple of bogies or even a double at the start, and enjoy the seclusion of northern Michigan.

[Doug Ralston]

I would mention Black Lake, but it is an evil Rees Jones, who is vilified extremis here. So I won't.

Doug

[Chris_Blakely]

Doug,

I think Rees Jones has nothing to do with not mentioning Black Lake.  I would think the over 2 hour drive time from Traverse City to Onaway, MI would be the reason not to mention it!!

Chris

[Chris_Blakely]

If one only wants to play in the general Traverse City area and only public courses, I would recommend the following:

High Pointe GC, Williamsburg, MI (approx. 10 miles from TC)
The Leelanau Club Suttons Bay, MI (approx. 20 miles from TC)
Champion Hill GC Beulah, MI (approx. 30 miles from TC)

Chris

[Greg Clark]

Tom:

Thanks for your perspectives on Black Forest and High Pointe.  Now I will surely bear down and get through the opening 5, let my guard down, and get kicked in the testes by the golf gods on the remaining 13  .  I really look forward to playing it.

John:

Thanks for the link.  I missed that last week.  Can't really tell from just a few pictures, but of the ones in the thread, the Fazio looked the most interesting.  I'll be interested to see the 3 courses and compare.

Paul:

The end of our first and last days are on the par 3 course.  Should be a lot of fun.  Just for kicks and giggles, I think I am most looking forward to that course of the Threetops offerings.  Sounds like it is made for a end of the day betting buddy trip experience.  Maybe with a beverage or two mixed in.

Chris:

Thanks for the expanded options.

Many thanks to everyone's opinions so far.  I am still interested in what people think of the Robbins/Koch effort at Ostego Mountain.

[Jfaspen]

I love Black Forest and it's my favorite course up north.  Belvedere is a close 2nd.

Tom, I only found the 2nd hole to be a tad too severe.  The first hole is very visually intimidating, but a good opener if you can keep it to the left side.  The last 3 holes (reachable par 5, long tough par 4 and very reachable par 5) provides one of the best finishes I've played. 

The treetops courses are nice, but they're typical up north michigan golf.  Lots of elevated tee shots, at least one drop shot par 3 per round.  Tribute is more of the same, but more visually stimulating and I enjoy it more than any of the tree tops courses. 

Haven't played Kingsley yet, but it's high on the list.  I loved Arcadia.  Also, if you want to stay local to TC, call Grand Traverse Resort and get on Lochenheath.  It's a Smyers course that I've heard nothing but great things about.

Enjoy the north!

jeff

[JC Jones]

If you want to get a good NoMI experience, and you are staying in Traverse City the night you land, I would recommend heading to Arcadia for the late afternoon round, taking advantage of the twilight rates, playing as many holes as you can before dark and driving the hour+ back to TC. 

Then, in the AM, hit at least the front nine of High Pointe as a warm up and then head down Highway 72 on your way to Gaylord.

I will agree with Brian, I dont give Arcadia enough credit.  I havent played it in at least 5 years and I need to get back out there.  Brian, PM me if you'd like to set up a date to play it this summer.

If you can get on Kingsley, it would be worth it for the Thursday AM round.  They dont have tee times, the course is never packed and you can scoot around pretty quickly.  However, for your first trip to NoMI, Id recommend Arcadia, just so you can experience Lake Michigan and all its splendor.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tom D.,

Interesting to read your commentary on Black Forest.

I played Black Forest and High Pointe on the same trip to northern Michigan, probably about 10 years ago. I absolutely fell in love with High Pointe -- which we played first -- then was a bit confused about Black Forest. There are some really good holes at Black Forest, but I didn't love it; mostly because it beats you up... right out of the gate, too, as you say. The greens are really difficult. As Tom mentions as well, there's unbelievable contour and slope confined to generally small putting surfaces throughout the course.

High Pointe is much, much more enjoyable, and at the same time, challenging enough. I found it to be much more memorable too.   

[Mark Arata]

I would personally play Kingsley 8-2 over Arcadia in the infamous 10 round test, but if you are going with normal golfers, and not the fine upstanding folks of this website, they would proabably enjoy Arcadia more......It isnt even as bad as I made it out to be, it wasnt really fair to have played Lost Dunes, Kingsley and Crystal Downs in the days before I played Arcadia

.....I dont like the routing and one or two of the holes feel more like bowling alleys, but it is a pretty place, some of the holes are very nice, and the view from the clubhouse at sunset is real and it's spectacular.......
 

[Craig Van Egmond]

I'm with Mark on the Kingsley versus Arcadia and I am a big fan of Arcadia.  If you can get on at Kingsley then its no contest in my book.  However, if you can get on at Crystal...   

I am also a big fan of High Pointe and Belvedere.

[Eric Smith]

  I was able to get them to drive a bit to Roscommon on this go round so we are playing Forest Dunes. 

Greg:

I took the guys up to Michigan last year for our annual golf marathon.  In addition to The Kingsley Club and Arcadia Bluffs, we played 63 holes at Forest Dunes and stayed on site in a lake cabin which was perfect.  What a place.  You will love the greens.  More than once I've read Tom Doak mention that Weiskopf builds flat greens, which may be the case.  But golligee the greens at Forest Dunes are the slickest, truest, most beautiful greens I've ever putted on. Their super is super. I can recall a number of long distance bombs rolled in by myself as well as my playing partners.  Now that's fun to me.

The 10th hole was my favorite as it sets you up for quite a different look and feel on the back nine compared to the front.

Bonus: We unanimously nominated their cheeseburger for the golf trip hall of fame! 

Enjoy your trip. 

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