Who are today's great golf course BUILDERS?

[Phil_the_Author]

One of the forgotten aspects in today's golf course architecture discussions are the men who actually BUILD the course for the architects who design and the owners who pay for them.

Who are today's great builders and shapers of the designs that become known as great?

[Wade Whitehead]

Bill Kubly makes my list.

WW

[Bill_McBride]

Jerry Pate's brother Scott owns Seaside Construction.  He built the new course at Pensacola Country Club on a shoestring and did a wonderful job.

[Tom_Doak]

There are some outstanding golf course contractors -- don't get me wrong on that.

However, a lot of the best work happening today is being done by architects with several key in-house construction associates, or by free-lance shapers who have a reputation for building cool stuff and are in much demand.

As just one example, at Erin Hills -- designed by a company who typically go to one of the big golf course contractors, Hurdzan / Fry -- the two key shapers were a guy who's worked many years with Bill Coore doing the greens, and a guy who'd had several years with us doing the bunkers.

[Bill_McBride]

There are some outstanding golf course contractors -- don't get me wrong on that.

However, a lot of the best work happening today is being done by architects with several key in-house construction associates, or by free-lance shapers who have a reputation for building cool stuff and are in much demand.

As just one example, at Erin Hills -- designed by a company who typically go to one of the big golf course contractors, Hurdzan / Fry -- the two key shapers were a guy who's worked many years with Bill Coore doing the greens, and a guy who'd had several years with us doing the bunkers.

That sounds like the design-build process we use in commercial construction.  Some of the benefits we pitch to owners when selling design-build over traditional bidding are fast track speed and value engineering oipportunities.    I'm sure those same opportunities accrue through the process you describe.  When architect and builder are virtually one and the same, it's a more flexible process.  When a bunch of builders bid a set of completed construction documents, there's much less flexibility.

[Bruce Leland]

Jerry Pate's brother Scott owns Seaside Construction.  He built the new course at Pensacola Country Club on a shoestring and did a wonderful job.

I have not played PCC since the Pate brothers completed it but everything I've read and heard indicates that they did a wonderful job.  I would have loved to be the mouse in the corner for some of those brother to brother discussions. 

Tom D. hit the nail on the head regarding "key in-house construction associates" and he has one of the best in Jim Urbina. 

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

One of, if not the, best unknown company to the average golfer is AgriScape out of Connecticut. They have worked for just about everybody on builds, renovations and restorations across the country. Any architect I've ever talked with who has worked with them, raves.

Anthony

[Tim Copeland]

There are some outstanding golf course contractors -- don't get me wrong on that.

However, a lot of the best work happening today is being done by architects with several key in-house construction associates, or by free-lance shapers who have a reputation for building cool stuff and are in much demand.

As just one example, at Erin Hills -- designed by a company who typically go to one of the big golf course contractors, Hurdzan / Fry -- the two key shapers were a guy who's worked many years with Bill Coore doing the greens, and a guy who'd had several years with us doing the bunkers.

Tom,

Have you always had in house guys or did you have to work with contractors at first??

[Jim Johnson]

I'm interested in knowing which course designers/architects also build courses? I'm talking drawing up the plans, and then getting down & dirty with the actual physical process of moving dirt. Or as little dirt as possible. 

I personally know of Rod Whitman and Jeff Mingay doing this. Who else does this kind of work?

[Tony Ristola]

I'm interested in knowing which course designers/architects also build courses? I'm talking drawing up the plans, and then getting down & dirty with the actual physical process of moving dirt. Or as little dirt as possible. 

I personally know of Rod Whitman and Jeff Mingay doing this. Who else does this kind of work?

Toot... toot.
Currently slaving away with a group of guys in Eastern Europe who haven't a clue about gowf.

Bunker Hill; Axland & Proctor.
Mike Devries?
Mike Strantz. Wish you were here. One guy in the golf industry I'd liked to have met.
Mike Nuzzo?
Gil Hanse.

[Tom_Doak]

Tim C:

I've slowly but surely built up the stable of guys.  At High Pointe it was just myself and Tom Mead the construction super -- I pretty much shaped the whole place, with a bit of help here and there from guys on the crew. 

At The Legends there was a shaper named Don Charles, who was pissed off that I insisted on going back onto the greens and shaping them myself.  Gil Hanse joined for The Legends and stayed for Black Forest and Stonewall.  Mike DeVries also worked at The Legends and Black Forest.

Jim Urbina worked freelance on Charlotte Golf Links, then decided to stay full-time.  Bruce Hepner joined about the same time, prior to Quail Crossing.

Don Placek joined in 1996, and Eric Iverson started doing freelance stuff for us about the same time, at Riverfront, although he did his own thing for a few years before coming back to us full-time.

Brian Slawnik was an intern at Beechtree, worked on projects for us and for a couple of others, then started full-time at Pacific Dunes.

Brian Schneider started with us for the second course at Stonewall ... he'd worked a bit with Kye Goalby, who we've worked with off and on since Apache Stronghold.

Chad Grave was an intern at Barnbougle, and has been with us since.

We've also benefitted from the service of Tony Russell and his guys, from Jerame Miller who built the greens at Lost Dunes, and from Chris Hunt and Dan Proctor and a bunch of our recent interns who are still somewhere in the system.  I should share all of their names, too, but frankly I'm tired of other architects trying to lure them away.     The only problem with this approach is that either I have to keep taking MORE JOBS for these guys to advance, or I have to let a lot of them go help somebody else instead of us.

We have worked with golf course contractors, too -- with Allan MacCurrach (who I know from when we were both skinny young kids on Pete Dye's construction crews) and with Landscapes Unlimited and with Weitz Construction.  In early days I didn't do that much because they resisted our desire to include our own shapers in the process.  Now that we have a track record, they are quite happy to supply machinery and irrigation crews and support staff but to let me rely on my own shapers, because they know how fast we can go.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Thank you Tony - I'll clarify:

The person most responsible for Wolf Point construction was Don Mahaffey.
I did help in some unique ways.
We also had an excellent shaper on site.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Mick McShane is a legendary shaper in Europe. He was the lead guy at the Castle Course and last I knew was working in Austria.

Anthony

[Tim Copeland]

Shapers that I would love to work with again/currently working with:

John Ellsworth

Robert DuBose

Mike Dodson

Steve Page

Brent Jennings

Jim "Juice" Cluley

Mario Espinoza

Bunker guys

Derek Mitchell

Hymie ??



These are guys that have been good enough for me to want to work with them again.  There are many that have been too high maintenance to bother with again. 

[Phil_the_Author]

Tony,

Mick Mcshane did the shaping of Kingsbarns as well...

[David Stamm]

Dave Axland, Dan Proctor, Jim Wagner, Jim Urbina to name a few.

[Tony Ristola]

There are certainly some excellent builders, but the industry has turnover. The construction company you hire today might not be the one you get. Could be better, could be otherwise.

[Mike_Young]

I think TD says it best in his post #3.
I have had to use a general contractor twice in the last 22 years and it was not fun for me.  Not that they were not good but you tire of some shaper telling your owner how he shaped something for "Jack"last year or how "Tom F" would do this feature....etc....yes there are plenty of good contractors out there but it comes down to the individuals......I have always tried to use the same group for all projects and it makes it much easier....AND also probably most important is the fact that so many of the contractor guys don't have the passion of the freelancers...
Tim,
If it is the "Hymie" that has been on or projects for the last few years....he has gone back to guatamala.

[Chris Cupit]

I'll nominate Medalist Golf out of Cumming, GA.  They did my job (Joey is a fantastic shaper BTW) and even though I was "small potatoes" compared to their big and higher profile jobs, they made me feel like my job was the most important one going on--class group of people.

Thanks Mike O'Shea, Deitrick Brock and of course Joey.

[Tim Copeland]

Mike...this Hymie worked for McDonald and sons a few years ago.....dont know if he is still there or back home.

BTW...I want to be a "coyote"....good money there these days.....$2000 per head is what my guys are saying for a trip across the Rio

[Scott Macpherson]

I'm interested in knowing which course designers/architects also build courses? I'm talking drawing up the plans, and then getting down & dirty with the actual physical process of moving dirt. Or as little dirt as possible. 

I personally know of Rod Whitman and Jeff Mingay doing this. Who else does this kind of work?

Denis Griffiths  (Denis Griffiths and Associates) in Atlanta is an architect who owns his own construction company AND gets on the Dozer himself. He is not widely known, but very talented.

scott

[Tim Nugent]

Good thread. Tom Doak's list highlights how many different guys an architect will work with over the years and why the design style tends to evolve over time.  Good shapers collaborate and architects who aren't stuck in their ways (or work through a bunch of field associates) will pick up as much from the shapers as the shapers will pick up from them. 
2 guys I'd take in a heartbeat are Mark McMillan who's been with many big builders but mostly a Wadsworth guy and Craig Robbins who now has his own small one-stop-shop.
The design/build is absolutely the way to go but it requires a great deal of trust on the owners behalf.  It also requires the architect to treat the owners money like it was his own.  Unfortunately, things like unions and bonding keep many talented guys tied to builders.

[Carl Rogers]

Coming late to this thread ...

There are vast differences between the design-build world of gca and the world of design-build in buildings.  They could not be farther apart.  Yes, I am an Architect that does buildings.

The largest conceptual difference are that there are fewer number of variables that a GCA has to control, but that the GCA has more authority and power to control and manipulate them.

Where I play at Riverfront there could not be a more stark contrast between the clubhouse and the course.  I have grave doubts that anyone whoever spent anytime at a golf course, had anything to do with that building.

Where to begin with the clubhouse ... I will limit my discussion to a couple of items. ...  Its sighting is somewhere between agnostic and indifferent, with no real view of the course (1st tee or 18th green).  The cart barn (if it had windows) has a nice view of the putting green, 1st tee and the first fairway.
It has a large porte-cochere that is never used because nobody that plays at Riverfront has a stretch limosine or a chaueffer.  It is badly placed relative to the cart barn or pro shop, so it can not be used as a bag drop.  It would be better off on the other side of the building as a covered place to get out of the rain or get into the shade, programmatic elements the building does not have. 
Image wise, the building makes no real effort at anything adventuresome (the usual builder stuff) in EXTREME contrast to the 18 green complexes.  Nothing ventured nothing gained ...

Go ahead, shoot me

Carl Rogers AIA NCARB