[Jay Flemma]

Please tell me this is a joke.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to Mr. Jones or Jay, but come on.  I nearly fell off my chair when I read,

"Oakmont by Henry Fownes

Created many frowns . . . " 

I've heard limericks that had more artistry and they began with a line about a man from Nantucket.  Stop the madness. 

That's why I said he should stick to metered for a while and work on the word choice.

But again, these are just fun little golf sketches...he's not the poet emeritus at Harvard, just another golfer like you.  Jones likes to throw together ome charming little verses.  I don't have a problem with him just having some fun.

...and again, he's not offering the book for sale.  Its just nice to see a different side of an architect we would otherwise have never seen.  Don't worry, it's back to golf...no more poetry corner for a while:)

[PThomas]

RTJ. Jr reputation is so bad, his relationship with his brother and family is very well known and it was only a few years ago that his entire staff and all employees quit because he was so difficult to work with.

well i learned something today..i had never heard this before

[Bob_Huntley]

RTJ. Jr reputation is so bad, his relationship with his brother and family is very well known and it was only a few years ago that his entire staff and all employees quit because he was so difficult to work with.

well i learned something today..i had never heard this before

Perhaps someone can tell me that the following is apocryphal or not. Some years ago, RTJ Jnr. was travelling first class to some exotic destination. The flight was still under 'seat belt  to be secured' conditions.'  RTJ then requested from the flight attendant that he would like a drink. When told that the seat belt sign was still on and that his request could not be considered, he asked the young lady, "Do you know who I am."  Without delay, the Attendant went on the intercom and announced, " We have a passenger in A3 who doesn't know who he is, is there anyone on board who can help us."

I'd like to believe it was true.


Bob

[PThomas]

RTJ. Jr reputation is so bad, his relationship with his brother and family is very well known and it was only a few years ago that his entire staff and all employees quit because he was so difficult to work with.

well i learned something today..i had never heard this before

Perhaps someone can tell me that the following is apocryphal or not. Some years ago, RTJ Jnr. was travelling first class to some exotic destination. The flight was still under 'seat belt  to be secured' conditions.'  RTJ then requested from the flight attendant that he would like a drink. When told that the seat belt sign was still on and that his request could not be considered, he asked the young lady, "Do you know who I am."  Without delay, the Attendant went on the intercom and announced, " We have a passenger in A3 who doesn't know who he is, is there anyone on board who can help us."

I'd like to believe it was true.


Bob

i've learned two things today!

[Mark Bourgeois]

Please tell me this is a joke.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to Mr. Jones or Jay, but come on.  I nearly fell off my chair when I read,

"Oakmont by Henry Fownes

Created many frowns . . . " 

I've heard limericks that had more artistry and they began with a line about a man from Nantucket.  Stop the madness. 

Dang, Fownes and frowns don't even rhyme, do they? Or am I mispronouncing "frowns?" Or is this the dread "poetic license?"

Would love to see RTJ jack it up on "No Holds Bard" night!

[Tim Pitner]

[Would love to see RTJ jack it up on "No Holds Bard" night!

Or perhaps Russell Simmons' Def Poetry . . .

[John_Cullum]

Jay

I for one am thrilled that you posted this thread. Golfclubatlas.com is not foreign to appreciation of fine art and literature. You can even purchase original oil paintings here, and I think it's great that RT invests his time and energy to craft such.

On the whole, this is a most enlightening thread on many fronts.

Thank you,
Sarge

[John Kavanaugh]

A golf architect
He cries for an empty leash
Dogs won't critique quirk

[Jay Flemma]

I still say the best is the Tobacco Road haiku - I forget who wrote it - "Author!  Author!"

Where's the Effing green?!?
Dude, I have no idea
Get the yardage book.

[Brian Phillips]

Jay,

How much design input do you really believe RTJ 2 had on Chambers Bay...seriously...?

Maybe an interview with John Strawn and Bruce Charlton would be more appropriate....

[Peter Pallotta]

John K - thanks for the haiku, but I'm one who remembers your "Villanelle" thread, and spent quite some time trying to produce one that met you standards; I failed, miserably. If you're so inclined, maybe you could produce one here.  Haiku, in comparison, is easy. Off the top of my head:

Time to make a putt
A cheater line will help you
But Shivas is sad

[John Goodman]

I believe my villanelle on Pasatiempo killed that thread, Pete.  JK wouldn't even comment on it.

[Peter Pallotta]

Ha, ha - that's right, I remember that, John.  And let me say right now, you deserved better....that villanelle of yours fit the established form perfectly.

Peter

[John Goodman]

That whole incident led me to conclude that Barney is a poetry poseur. . .

[Jay Flemma]

Jay,

How much design input do you really believe RTJ 2 had on Chambers Bay...seriously...?

Maybe an interview with John Strawn and Bruce Charlton would be more appropriate....

Honestly Brian, that's not the case.  RTJ, Jr., during our talk, mentioned a lot of the design strategies we champion here.  He walked me though a whole bunch of new ideas he had.  He gives alot of credit to the team, but the real credit he said went to the owners of the land, who wanted a walking, ground attack based game without bunkers at 5 o'clock, 7 o'clock lather rinse repeat.

[Bill Shamleffer]

A few years back I stumbled across a golf nursery rhyme book in a Northampton, Mass bookstore, written and illustrated by a couple of locals, Mike & Joan Ryan.  The book is Old Father Gowf's Book of Nursey Rhymes.

Here is one of the rhymes:

LITTLE BOY BLUE

Little Boy Blue
Come blow your whistle,
The sheeps in the meadow
The cow's in the thistle.

Where's the little boy
In charge of this thing?
Behind the caddyshack,
Groovin' his swing.

[John Kavanaugh]

That whole incident led me to conclude that Barney is a poetry poseur. . .

John,

After you were so kind to host me at your club I felt it would have been rude to critique your villanelle on Pasatiempo.  I know this may not be fair, but after a few lines I was lost and never made it home.  How about reposting it here and giving me another chance.  I'll take a full swing at it this time and promise not to take any Chip shots.

[John Goodman]

I was just kiddin John, no need to critique.  And you're welcome back in Birmingham anytime; is your son still at Auburn?

Here are the two villanelles I posted last time, first one about Pasa:

On a course near Santa Cruz,
my game was in an awful state.
I was defeated yet did not lose.

I made fours and my foe made twos
on the holes numbered three and eight
on a course near Santa Cruz.

My putts were wretched - no great news -
the eleventh made me scratch my pate.
I was defeated yet did not lose.

I was closed out, but I’d seen clues
of features not just good, but great,
on that course near Santa Cruz. 

Though I’d been drummed, I left bemused:
Why love a course I ought to hate?
I mean the course near Santa Cruz.

Who can now walk in the Doctor’s shoes?
Such golfing splendor recreate?
Like the course near Santa Cruz,
Where I was defeated yet did not lose.

The second one might be about Turning Stone or French Lick or any course in Vegas:

One more resort, not last or best
but there to sate your golfing fix,
better than you might have guessed

You’ll buy a shirt that sports a crest,
or new head covers for your sticks.
One more resort, not last or best.

Wall-to-wall green and GPS,
the water features are prolix,
but better than you might have guessed.

The courses are rather more than less,
they wouldn’t be the Doak-boys’ picks.
One more resort, not last or best.

They’ve hid the paths, I must confess;
the beer girls look like Dixie Chicks.
Better than you might have guessed.

No architectural arrest,
and not a links - but mighty slick.
One more resort, not last or best,
but better than you might have guessed.

[Peter Pallotta]

John G -

you and don't need my kudos or JK's or even those of great 20th century poets like Auden or Thomas. But let me say, I'd forgotten how really excellent those poems were.

"I was defeated yet did not lose // on a course near Santa Cruz"

I only wish Marty Robbins was still alive to craft those lines into a song.

Peter

[John Kavanaugh]

John - now I remember why I didn't comment.  Come visit me up north, you got one coming.

Here is a snippet from a piece that doesn't bore me to death and includes golf. The eintire piece can be found at... http://bukowski.net/poems/jaggernaut.php

I got out and began to walk. Manchester. The street was full of private residents behind iron bars with guards. And funeral homes. Others were walking in. But not too many. It was late. I walked along thinking, shit, it's too far, I ought to turn back. But I kept walking. About halfway down Manchester (on the south side) I found a golf course that had a bar and I walked in. There were tables. And golfers, satisfied golfers drinking slowly. There was a daylight golf course but these kitties had been shooting for distance on the straight range under the electric lights. Through the glass back of the bar you could still see a few others out there Jerking off golfballs under the moon. I had a girl with me. She ordered a bloody mary and I ordered a screwdriver. When my belly's going bad vodka soothes me and my belly's always going bad. The waitress asked the girl for her I.D. She was 24 and it pleased her. The bartender had a cheating, chalky dumb face and poured 2 thin drinks. Still it was cool and gentle in there.

Earlier Bukowski said "The racetrack to me is like the bullfights were to Hemingway -- a place to study death and motion and your own character or lack of it."  He could as easily be describing a golf course.

[John Goodman]

There is some truth in it and some of his phrases are arresting, but Bukowski's just not my cup of tea.  Thanks for it though, I enjoyed it.

Your observation that a golf course is a place to study your own character or lack of it is more true than Bukowski's observation.  Unless maybe you are the bull, the matador or the race horse.

[John Goodman]

I forgot to say that that piece puts me some in mind of Updike's Rabbit, Run.  And you put me some in mind of Harry Angstrom.  You're a better golfer than he was, though.

[John Kavanaugh]

There is some truth in it and some of his phrases are arresting, but Bukowski's just not my cup of tea.  Thanks for it though, I enjoyed it.

Your observation that a golf course is a place to study your own character or lack of it is more true than Bukowski's observation.  Unless maybe you are the bull, the matador or the race horse.

I am lucky that I have never become a horse better because of the 12% cut and slow pace.  I do go now and then to eat lunch and watch the people and have a few friends who play the ponies.  I promise you that gambling on a losing proposition examines ones character of lack of it.

The full quote is: "The racetrack to me is like the bullfights were to Hemingway -- a place to study death and motion and your own character or lack of it."  I kind of skipped over the character issue because I believe golf is the most cheating game ever created as a sport.  What interests me the the study of death and motion.  Imagine the beauty of young girls walking a course in Minnesota in team colors fighting for a meaningless title.  Then think of the ride home as father and daughter well up in tears and discuss the wait till next year.  Her eyes as red as the fresh welt still implanted on his head from a stray ball of another day.  A study of death and motion. 

[John Goodman]

I was going to try to tell you about a very very old man in a kilt playing the Struie course at Dornoch, shuffling down the fairway with a bag with four clubs in it.

But you win - I can't compete with the Minnesota school girl.

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