[Rich Goodale]

Bob

I for one would approach the 1st at LACC (North, I presume) with my virginity intact.

Rich

[Dean Stokes]

The replies to date only goes to prove my "Big World" theory which is for some of us who really understand the beauties of those opening tee shots mentioned on the above posts and simply love them, to balance us out there must be a commensurate group somewhere of mindless dumb ducks and troglodytes who don't understand those holes and are disappointed in them.  

Dean, not to pick another fight with you but that opening tee shot at Maidstone is one of my favorites in the world. Over the years I've actually given it a name which is "European Amorphous."

When I first went there about 25 years ago to play in the Maidstone Bowl I'd never seen the course before or didn't remember it. I sorta thought back then I was a pretty hot player and the tournament expected big things from me and my partner.

So, in my first round there which was quaifying for the Maidstone Bowl, I walked out of the lockerroom, grabbed a score card out of the box, looked at the length of the opening hole and pulled out a 1 iron. We had the honor and my partner asked me if I wanted to go first and I said sure. I teed my ball and then looked out at that hole and stopped and asked my partner where the hell the golf course was? He just said, hit that iron right over the left side of that bunker out there and I did.

Over the years I've come to just love that hole and that opening tee shot for at least the reason it is just about everything that modern golf architecture isn't and is not suppose to be.

And that hole and tee shot is definitely not the only one on that course a first timer will stand on the tee and look out there and wonder what the hell is going on.

That's one of the very reasons I love The Maidstone as much as I do!  

No offense taken Tom. I simply read the title of the thread and answered accordingly.
After the hour drive to get there and all the excitement I'd built up in the days prior, knowing we had a tee time out there, I was very disappointed stood on the first tee hitting into 'the unknown'. It wasn't until we walked across the road and stood on the second I thought "ok, here we go". I t got better walking across the road to the third tee, then across the bridge on the fourth hole!
Anyway each to his own , but I thought it was a disappointing start to a great golf course. And I can't wait to go back hopefully later this year where I'm going to hit driver on five!

[TEPaul]

"And I can't wait to go back hopefully later this year where I'm going to hit driver on five!"


Dean:

Now that particular tee shot and the club that players tend to select is one of the more interesting I've ever seen in golf. God Knows how many times I've played there generally in and around the Maidstone Bowl and the club selection across the player spectrum of even good players is amazing to me. It's almost like a general lock-in with all players that they either hit driver or iron and most all of them I know absolutely refuse to ever change and switch up their choice on that hole (I've even wondered if that mini-phenomenon isn't just the result of the fact that they just sort of tend to grab one club instead of a couple from their caddies coming off the 4th green when all the caddies tend to go from there down the 5th instead of going way back with the player to the 5th tee).

I've never tried to hit driver there in my life not even downwind and most of the players I know never hit anything but driver. But I can tell you over the years I may not have made quite so many birdies as they have but I've also made nowhere near the "others" they have if they get into a bunker (particularly the left one) or miss it right.

That hole may not be all that sexy looking but it has one of the most interesting "tee shot club selection" scoring spectrums over the years I've ever seen. It might even be up there somewhat near perhaps the greatest par 4 in the world for an awesome "scoring spectrum"---the world class 4th at Riviera!

The "risk-reward/tee shot club selection" equation on that hole is really amazing to me. And it's not the only one of that course---so is #1, #7, #9.

In my mind, this kind of thing is perhaps what a good portion of great but certainly really enduring golf architecture, is about.

[Dean Stokes]

Last year I hit 4 iron, wedge ( not knowing the hole). In tournament play that is perhaps the way I would go - it takes 'other' out of play. In a matchplay game with friends however I am going with driver at the front left corner. "we didn't come here to lay up my boy"...... we did also try to drive  #7 across the water! I couldn't quite get there but I know a man who can.

PS Tom. As you stand on #15 tee, the par 5, is that your Summer house off to the right

[TEPaul]

"PS Tom. As you stand on #15 tee, the par 5, is that your Summer house off to the right?  "


Dean:

That one is an interesting story. I don't know who the guy is but maybe 15-20 years ago he came in and built that thing with that outrageous wall next to it and in the process completely cut off the entire view to the west along the ocean of one Lee Radziwill who happened to be Jackie Kennedy's sister.

You want to see a unholy stink created amongst the high and the mighty----Oh My God, that one might take the cake! 

[Mike Benham]

Rich -

Define disappointing?   Is the hedge the single factor that puts it in that category?

If you define CPC as disappointing then other candidates will include TOC, Riveria and Pacific Dunes ....

Mike

[Art Roselle]

I would include Pasatiempo.  I know that the bowling alley feel of #1 is due to the driving range and some other changes over time, but I did not like it when I first stepped up to the tee.  I loved it from there on, though.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

I laid the sod over my tee ball at Dornoch once with about 25 people watching.

That was very, very disappointing.



Anthony

[Kalen Braley]

I would include Pasatiempo.  I know that the bowling alley feel of #1 is due to the driving range and some other changes over time, but I did not like it when I first stepped up to the tee.  I loved it from there on, though.

I'd agree Art, the course to me really started on the 2nd hole...it was disappointing.

[Ken McGlynn]

I laid the sod over my tee ball at Dornoch once with about 25 people watching.

That was very, very disappointing.



Anthony

Anthony, in addition to laying "the sod over the ball" on Dornoch's first, don't you think this is a very weak opener to begin with? Of course you don't really know what's in front of you until at Dornoch until arriving at the 3rd tee.

Staying in the UK, I've never been a huge fan of Royal Lytham and St. Anne's opening one shotter. The quirkiness of playing a par 3 to open a nine doesn't bother me...I love Winged Foot West's 10th....it's just this hole is flat and uninspring compared to what lies ahead.

[Tom Huckaby]

I believe I am in line with my elderly idol Mr. Benham in confusion over this.  Can we define disappointing?

Because I surely don't find CPC nor Pasa's openers disappointing.  Rich and I have argued over CPC before and to each his own... but re Pasa, well.. it is tight, for sure, but it's a damn hard shot and gets the blood flowing early... what is "disappointing" about it?  Did you expect something else on this very tree-lined course?  Is it the range to the left instead of more trees?  I don't get it.  But maybe it's because for me, having played the course for many years, these days it's as open as it's ever been so I find it fun, fair and challenging...

If one wants to talk disappointing openers, then as is so often the case, Bob H. nails it - the opener at LACC North is sleep-inducing.

TH

[Bob_Huntley]

Rich -

Define disappointing?   Is the hedge the single factor that puts it in that category?

If you define CPC as disappointing then other candidates will include TOC, Riveria and Pacific Dunes ....

Mike

[Bob_Huntley]

Rich -

Define disappointing?   Is the hedge the single factor that puts it in that category?

If you define CPC as disappointing then other candidates will include TOC, Riveria and Pacific Dunes ....

Mike

Oops, Michael Benham, hush and go and wash your mouth out, Riviera's' 1st disappointing? How could you? Trees to the right of you, out of bounds left, a barranca threatening you if too long. This can be a sphincter  tightening drive in the third flight of the club championship let alone a Tour event.


Bob

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

I think for me, the unsightly range contributes here as well as the bowling alley appearance of the hole.  And in retrospect when you think about some of the other amazing tee shots that one gets to play on the rest of the course, the 1st tee is rather ho hum.

I won't disagree that its not challenging because it is....but its only challenging in a penal way.  Keep it straight or your chipping back to the fairway and forget about a par on the opening hole.

[Rich Goodale]

Rich -

Define disappointing?   Is the hedge the single factor that puts it in that category?

If you define CPC as disappointing then other candidates will include TOC, Riveria and Pacific Dunes ....

Mike

Mike

I'll stick to my first post, i.e.:

"Drive over an impenetrable hedge 50 yards or so form the back tees.  None of the rest of the hole is visible except the highest branches of the big tree in the right rough."

PS--I love the 1st at Pacific Dunes, and am being too hard on the 1st at TOC which is simplistic, but how about that context!  Riviera, some day....

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen:

OK, I get it more now.  I just don't see it as a bowling alley at all because well... you should have seen it 10 years ago!  It really was a bowling alley then.  The trees on the right have been thinned so much it appears to me as wide open now.  But I get your complaint.

I just also don't see it as much different than the other great tee shots on this course, however.  Darn near every hole has a chip out sideways possiblity.  6 and 7 are far more so than 1.  

I won't call it a great golf hole, no.  But disappointing? I can't go that far.

TH

[Rich Goodale]

I laid the sod over my tee ball at Dornoch once with about 25 people watching.

That was very, very disappointing.



Anthony

That's damn hard to do, Anthony, given the firmness of the soil.  Were you using a lob wedge?

[Tom Huckaby]

Rich -

Define disappointing?   Is the hedge the single factor that puts it in that category?

If you define CPC as disappointing then other candidates will include TOC, Riveria and Pacific Dunes ....

Mike

Mike

I'll stick to my first post, i.e.:

"Drive over an impenetrable hedge 50 yards or so form the back tees.  None of the rest of the hole is visible except the highest branches of the big tree in the right rough."

PS--I love the 1st at Pacific Dunes, and am being too hard on the 1st at TOC which is simplistic, but how about that context!  Riviera, some day....

Rich - just to clarify - is the disappointment because removal of the hedge would make for such a better golf hole, as you see it?

I can dig that.  I disagree with your assessment of what one can and can't see (I really think one can see more than just the top branches of the right trees)... and I still don't find the tee shot disappointing, because I'd also put it into context as you do about TOC.. but if the standard is what might have been sans something in the way or whatever, then I would agree - it is disappointing the hedge must be there.

Under this standard LACC North remains king.  Gosh add ANYTHING to that tee shot and it is improved.

TH

[Rich Goodale]

Rich -

Define disappointing?   Is the hedge the single factor that puts it in that category?

If you define CPC as disappointing then other candidates will include TOC, Riveria and Pacific Dunes ....

Mike

Bob

Yes, its the hedge.  As I have said before, if the CPC members just gathered up their spare change they could build a tunnel for the 17-mile drive in front of the tee and have a world-class opening hole.  As it is now, it is goofy golf.

Compare Elie.  Equally blind shot, but you have 150 yards of fairway in front of you before your ball ventures into the unknown.  You can visualise the hole even if you can't see it completely, and the fact that you can look through the periscope in the starter's shack to see exactly what is in front of you is just a bonus....

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

I guess I would have to sort of agree, its not a disappointing hole per se. B in a relative context could it be considered "disappointing" because its such a fine golf course with a rather ho-hum tee shot to begin with.

Mike,

I don't see how TOC, Riv, Pac Dunes are comprable to CPC.  There is no hedge, they aren't blind, and your not hitting over an "actively used" road.

[Stan Dodd]

I find the first at Dornoch to be anything but a disappointment.  You know you need to hit a good one as this is a "breather" and is the first shot in  one of the most special walks in golf.  You want no worse than 4 and would take 5 but if you hit a funky one 6 is in the equation on a 300 yard hole.  It is also fun as you can really hit most any club in your bag...hit me with your best shot.

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen:  I just don't see how one can call that tee shot ho-hum.  Call it too tough, call it uninsipring because of the poor view to the left, call it a bowling alley... it's just never going to be ho-hum, not unless arrow-straight drives are routine.  So I shall take that as a poor choice of words.  

Rich - your post to Bob also answered my question, thanks.  In the end that hole is better without the hedge.  I just tend to take things more as is... and as it is, well... again I don't find it disappointing in any way.  If one accepts the context at TOC, then one must at CPC.  And I know, you don't find nearly the same context as you've often stated CPC is just another golf course for you.  But for the rest of us mortals, well... that tee shot in front of the inevitable crowd, hard against the shop... with the anticipation of what is to follow... well... I for one hope I never find that disappointing.

TH

ps - I'm with Stan re Dornoch.  Good lord, I could likely find 100 more adjectives before I'd say disappointing about that little beasty.

[Matt_Cohn]

Does anyone approach the 1st at LACC with elation, trepidation or just plain ennui?

Bob

Bob, I thought of this one as well. It's just kind of a plain old shot. Not bad - just plain. But I don't know if I felt truly disappointed by it.

I'd also submit Mauna Kea. Flat teeshot with the option to basically cut the corner around the driving range.

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

No doubt its better than it was before...but to put into different words, the 1st tee felt a bit muni-ish.  This would be mostly due to the combination of 3 thing. range to the left, range balls in the 1st fairway and trees lining both sides.  If a gorgeous view like the 6th at PB adds to the hole, then the opposite is true.  The range on 1 detracts from the views and takes aways from the hole.

I'm sure its much better than it was before, but this was my feeling.  And it was only on the 1st hole....

If it were up to me, I'd move the tee back up the hill, eliminate the range, and the trees down the left, and return the hole to its par 5 glory.   

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,

No doubt its better than it was before...but to put into different words, the 1st tee felt a bit muni-ish.  This would be mostly due to the combination of 3 thing. range to the left, range balls in the 1st fairway and trees lining both sides.  If a gorgeous view like the 6th at PB adds to the hole, then the opposite is true.  The range on 1 detracts from the views and takes aways from the hole.

I'm sure its much better than it was before, but this was my feeling.  And it was only on the 1st hole....

If it were up to me, I'd move the tee back up the hill, eliminate the range, and the trees down the left, and return the hole to its par 5 glory.   

OK, that explains it better.   I get those issues.  I was mainly commenting on the use of "ho-hum" because it's never going to be that.  As for your idea, we all dream that... Rob Chestnut puzzles over how to make it happen... in the end I don't think it can, but perhaps Rob will see this and weigh in.

Matt - I was disappointed at LACC because I spent my life hearing about what a great course it is, and when I got to the first tee, I wondered if I was in the right place.  That tee shot is indeed ho-hum.  Thus I was disappointed. 

TH

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