A Fan's Photo Tribute to Pacific Dunes - 18th hole commentary now in progress

[Joe Bentham]

#2 green was one of the last built, the gloves had came off at that point so to speak.  And for my money the most severe pin location is back right.

[Kalen Braley]

#2 green was one of the last built, the gloves had came off at that point so to speak.  And for my money the most severe pin location is back right.

Joe,

Hard to argue against that one.  That was where the pin was when I played it and I remember thinking it would be a tough 2 putt and I wasn't more than 20 feet away. A 3 putt is what I ended up with.

[Jim Colton]

How about a front nine thread and a back nine thread?

[Steve Pieracci]

Another great post Tim. I had the pleasure of hitting my drive into the left bunker. That bunker may be the worst bunker i have ever been in and my only choice was a lob wedge out.

This picture says what Matt just said. 

[Tom Huckaby]

Steve, my partner and respected source for all things rocket science:

That's the central shoe bunker.  The more sadistic one the one to the left.

TH

[Tom_Doak]

I agree with Joe B about the correct play into the wind.  If it's strong, I aim left and play short of the left-hand bunker (which Urbina and I named the "Horn" because it went with the Shoe).  I don't mind having a longish club into that green, which is pretty receptive.

Joe B is dead wrong about the green, though.  It was not nearly one of the last we built ... it was about the fourth or fifth green built, after #11, #10, #9 upper, and #5.  Don Placek did the dozer work there, and it was the first green he ever built.  When he started the front half was dead flat -- didn't drain anywhere -- so I had him jack up the middle a bit, which made the back left bit drain out the back.

This is definitely one of my favorite holes on the course.

[Tim Bert]

Hole #3 is a par 5

499 from the back tee
476 from the green

This is the second consecutive hole that's going to look really short on the card if you haven't played the hole in the summer.  For me, there is no way I'm reaching it in two even though I'd normally be drooling over 476.  The fairway is WIDE.  There are several bunkers scattered throughout the fairway.  Looking at the pictures, there is a ton of room to the right over the closest fairway bunker from the tee.  Oddly enough, I can't remember ever playing the hole from the right side.  The wind certainly contributes to this as it is not only hurting but also blowing a bit to the left in the normal summer conditions.  I can only remember one ball I hit off the tee to the right side, and I didn't play it because it was lost in some gorse.  It was WAY right.  It's possible that I've journeyed down the right side, but I don't recall it.  I'm always left of the center fairway bunkers, sometimes as wide left as #12 fairway.

The second shot (if you aren't going for the green) is one of those shots where you can lose your focus because there is plenty of room to play, but you sometimes find yourself accepting any result rather than committing to a target.  Play it too close to the green and right and you have a tough pitch over the greenside bunker.  Put it too far left and the last fairway bunker on the left or the gorse (or both - photo included!) will put the hurt on you. 

The greenside bunker on the front right is another nasty one, depending upon where your ball comes to rest.  The 3rd green is one of the few spots where I'm lacking photos.  If anyone has a nice image of the green, I'd appreciate the support.  I've got a few approach shots to the skyline green, but I don't have any that will give you a sense of the contours or movement on the putting surface.  Any views from the right side of this hole are also appreciated!

Critics of this course like to point to the par 5s as one of the weaker links.  I think #3 is a really good par 5, and while the par 4s and par 3s are the real strengths of the course (in my opinion, anyway) I think the par 5s do their job in contributing to this all-world golf course.  As a set, the par 5s have grown on me with time (especially #12 and #15 but more on that later.)

For those of you that have never seen this course in person and have been following this thread, it can be hard to believe the course is going to continue to get better.  While #1-#3 is a fine stretch of golf and one of the best openings around, #4 through #7 (and some would include 8 in this stretch) will outshine just about any 4-hole stretch of golf that exists.  In other words, the best is yet to come!

The tee shot


Fairway bunkers


Some views of the approach (all on the left side  )




And a little closer to the green (still on the left)






The bunker /gorse that is waiting for your thoughtless 2nd shot (you can see the result of mine)

[Joe Bentham]

Joe B is dead wrong about the green, though.  It was not nearly one of the last we built ... it was about the fourth or fifth green built, after #11, #10, #9 upper, and #5.  Don Placek did the dozer work there, and it was the first green he ever built.  When he started the front half was dead flat -- didn't drain anywhere -- so I had him jack up the middle a bit, which made the back left bit drain out the back.

TomD-
I stand corrected (although I still think it is one of wildiest greens on the course).  I wonder where I got that from?  Maybe a book on the construction of Pacific Dunes is in order.
Don's first effort is really impressive, has he built a better green since?

[Dieter Jones]

Hi Tim. Not having been there I'm trying to disect purely from photo's so perhaps help me out here. From the photo's it looks like right is wider than left. Obviously the green side bunkers dictate a left approach if you're trying to get home in two. How far to get to the respective sets of bunkers centre and left?

Let's say it's playing into a strong summer wind and getting home in two isn't possible - would you consider the right option better?  Do you play left because that suits your shape best or would you consider it the better strategy for most?

cheers, Dieter

[Tom_Doak]

Dieter:

I would always want to play the approach shot from the left.

Since there are seldom conditions when I can go for the green in two, I usually play RIGHT off the tee, so I can get back to the LEFT on the second shot without having to mess with that bunker and gorse bush that are on the left about 125 yards from the green.  If you play right off the tee, you can get past them easily.

That's why I think it's one of the best par-5's in Bandon.  If you play left off the tee, thinking you're going to go for it in two, and you don't hit a great drive, then your second shot has to contend with the trouble left ... you get punished for thinking you were that good.

P.S.  The first bunker in the middle of the fairway is about 240 yards off the tee.  Into a summer wind, only the better players can get to it.  In the Curtis Cup, they played the tee back on round 1, and the players all aimed right at the bunker and wound up just short ... so the second day they move the tee markers up a bit, and a lot of players hit right into the bunker. 

[Tim Bert]

Diter -

I've only been on the left because that's where my ball has gone - not necessarily because that's where I wanted to be.  Tom is of course right that you want to approach the green from the left.  I would say that if you can't make it home in two anyway, the ideal play into the wind would be right off the tee.  This gives you a better angle to place your second shot a little left of the green - it makes that second shot look a little more open.  Then you want to be beyond all the bunkers and on the left after your second which give you the ideal approach for your third.

If you thought we discussed a lot of options on hole #2, there are probably even more here.  As I mentioned in the original post on #3, the fairway is gigantic. 

[Tim Pitner]

Pacific Dunes #3 is one of my favorite holes on the course.  The expansive view from the tee with the ocean in the background is awesome.  I've always gone right off the tee, but the shot to the left looks pretty inviting, especially if the wind is such that you might have a chance to reach the green in two.  The greenside bunker to the right is epic.  One feature I really like is the little clearing, almost a trail, that runs from behind the green.  If you wind up there, which I have, you're grateful that you're not in the gorse, but you have a very delicate shot up a slope and then you have the front bunker in mind if you go long. 

Question for those who go left off the tee?  How much does the gorse obstruct your view of the green?  Last time I played there, my caddie talked me out of going the left route and I still regret taking her advice. 

[Michael Dugger]

3rd green is always an elusive target for me.  There is so much hateful trouble around it I just gag over the shot.

You don't want to be short.  Long is quite possibly an unplayable lie.  Right is doomed. 

One of the deepest bunkers to be found anywhere is back left.

It's plenty wide open all the way to the dance floor, but until you are safely on the putting surface your work is not done yet when playing #3.

[Sean Leary]

3rd green is always an elusive target for me.  There is so much hateful trouble around it I just gag over the shot.

You don't want to be short.  Long is quite possibly an unplayable lie.  Right is doomed. 

One of the deepest bunkers to be found anywhere is back left.

It's plenty wide open all the way to the dance floor, but until you are safely on the putting surface your work is not done yet when playing #3.

Played the course many times before I ever knew the back left bunker was even there, until I hit into it in two a couple years ago. You do not want to be there.

[Tom Huckaby]

I love #3 also... a great par five in a course full of them.  And excuse me while I take a second to vigrorously pat myself on the back... oops, don't pull any muscles... but I have always tried to play it exactly as Tom Doak does - that is, drive right, 2nd shot left, approach from there.  Of course limitations of execution don't always make it work out that way, but that is the intent.  I have to say having face it that there are few scarier pitches in golf than a 75 yarder (or less) coming in from the right off of tight turf... that front bunker is a place of death and destruction... so me no want that ever again.  Coming in from the left is not so scary.

Of course what makes this hole so great is that with the proper wind getting close to the green, or maybe even all the way up and on, becomes very very tempting... and the center bunkers on the tee shot, well... they've gotten me also - not a happy place - but they force the choice off the tee which again is very very cool.

I think I've cited #3 in discussions about the world's great par fives... if not, I should have.  I do very much love this golf hole.

TH

ps - no offense but it sucks that we moved to #3 right when Tom Doak came in and put the hammer down re #2!  But I shall not wish for separate threads again...

[Kalen Braley]

I can't disagree with whats been said about #3 so far...I think its nothing short of a terrific golf hole!

The fairway bunkers to me really create as close to a split fairway as you can get without actually having one.  You really have to choose which way your going to go on both the tee shot and the layup.

Has anyone played it with a back right pin?  Holy crap I can't imagine going at the pin even with a wedge in my hand.

[Ken McGlynn]

Pacific Dunes #3 is one of my favorite holes on the course.  The expansive view from the tee with the ocean in the background is awesome.  I've always gone right off the tee, but the shot to the left looks pretty inviting, especially if the wind is such that you might have a chance to reach the green in two.  The greenside bunker to the right is epic.  One feature I really like is the little clearing, almost a trail, that runs from behind the green.  If you wind up there, which I have, you're grateful that you're not in the gorse, but you have a very delicate shot up a slope and then you have the front bunker in mind if you go long. 

Question for those who go left off the tee?  How much does the gorse obstruct your view of the green?  Last time I played there, my caddie talked me out of going the left route and I still regret taking her advice. 

Tim, the only time you should attempt to get the ball down the left side off the tee on number 3 is if you have a realistic chance to get home in two. Otherwise take Mr. Doak's advice, go right off the tee, get the approach back left and knock the 3rd on from there. With the gorse being cut back on the left, it's no longer a visually obstructed approach. The general rule of thumb for aiming left off the tee is: a minimal wind out of the north or a south wind, an ability to carry a shot 240 yards+ should the drive venture to the left side of the first middle bunker, the confidence and game to hit a 200 yard approach on a very tight line to a shallow green.

[Cory Brown]

When I played it I drove left, and it's not horrible, but it is difficult for the second.  My shot ended up just short of the bunker, and my third was terrifying.  There was no way I was going to end up in the bunker so I went just long, fortunately it was a relatively easy up and down.

This green and surrounds is one of the best I have ever seen, although there are many more coming up that give it a run for it's money.

[Jason Topp]

The third green is one of my favorite places in golf.

It is your first great view of the ocean and you know you have a bunch of fun holes ahead. 

[Tim Pitner]

The placement of the central bunkers on #3 is perfect.  Any less room on the left and you wouldn't be tempted to go that direction.  Any more room and you wouldn't have much incentive to tack to the right. 

While there are good holes on the back 9, the stretch of Pacific from #2 to the drive on #9 is its real strength, IMO. 

[Peter Wagner]

Great thread!  These pictures bring back vivid memories of the last time I played PD.  I was part of a group of 8 mostly hockey guys.  We had just finished playing in Canada and took off out of Victoria at 6:30am and while in flight we asked the pilot of the private jet to throw the plane down in Bandon.  Someone called their assistant to make the arraignments at PD.  We hop into a shuttle van and in no time at all we're on the first tee.  No warm up, just a little putting on the practice green to the left of the 1st tee.

Two things that hockey guys love to do - golf and drink.  We were on that pace for 4 days straight while north of the border, and there I am addressing my ball early in the morning and I couldn't pull the trigger.  All my buddies are laughing and one says "Problems hitting a moving target Peter?".  Yeah yeah yeah.  3 hours sleep, waaay too much to drink for 4 days, wind was blowing 30 mph+, so yeah the target was moving.  The only thing I could think of was to close my eyes and swing.  When I opened them the ball was sailing high with a slight fade and it landed dead center over the humped fairway.  I still count it as one of my best shots ever. 

The walking did some good and once we got over the crown of the first fairway we got the real wind.  Man did it blow that day!
What a great place to play golf!

Thanks for putting this thread together. 

- Peter

[Ted Kramer]

#3 is my favorite of the first three.
I think it is an alomst perfect par 5.
The question to go in two is right there from the time you step onto the tee.
If you decide to lay up, the 2nd shot is the key.
A well placed 2nd up the left side makes 4 a real possibility while a safe but problematic 2nd up the right side can lead to major problems . . .

Love #3. What a view from the green . . .

-Ted

[Doug Wright]

I love #3 also... a great par five in a course full of them.  And excuse me while I take a second to vigrorously pat myself on the back... oops, don't pull any muscles... but I have always tried to play it exactly as Tom Doak does - that is, drive right, 2nd shot left, approach from there.  Of course limitations of execution don't always make it work out that way, but that is the intent.  I have to say having face it that there are few scarier pitches in golf than a 75 yarder (or less) coming in from the right off of tight turf... that front bunker is a place of death and destruction... so me no want that ever again.  Coming in from the left is not so scary.

Of course what makes this hole so great is that with the proper wind getting close to the green, or maybe even all the way up and on, becomes very very tempting... and the center bunkers on the tee shot, well... they've gotten me also - not a happy place - but they force the choice off the tee which again is very very cool.

I think I've cited #3 in discussions about the world's great par fives... if not, I should have.  I do very much love this golf hole.

TH

What TH said above (except the butt-boy comments) [Emoticon omitted]. This hole has tons of strategy and, like many holes at PD, plays so very differently depending on the wind and which tees you're playing (footnote--my suggestion to folks playing more than one round there who are decent players is to play both the back and green tees on the same day). I've had really bad and really good experiences on this lovable hole, ranging from a plugged drive in the center bunker and a lunch date with the greenside right bunker one time to a downwind drive and 5 iron to 15 feet another. As others have said, the second shot is a whole lot more strategic than it looks and it's easy to just hit it anywhere safe. Then you have one of the hardest shots at PD for your third. I'd love to play this hole to a far back pin sometime.

[johnk]

Just got back from 3days, and played Pacific Dunes twice. 

One thing I really like is the narrowing of focus effect for this par 5.  You start with an elevated tee, ocean view, and great bunkers.  You have a pretty wide open second.  By the third, you need to be focused in on a tiny target and give it all of your attention.  The hole forms a large scale funnel, which I think makes it more suspenseful and heightens the attention level (More so, than say #15 or #12).

One example of the wide to narrow concept - assume you do want to be left on the approach to #3, I would claim you can actually hit the ball left, over the gorse and have a pretty simple hybrid draw toward the left side.  I think the fairway from about 120 - 80yds feeds left.  To me it's easy to be on the left side.  (Though I do remember playing partners in the left bunker - and it is very possible to hit the green from that bunker.)

So I think you can pretty much hit it anywhere but the center bunker off the tee.  You have a very wide palette to work with. I hit 3 wood to avoid the gorse  thru the right, and it's plenty of club to get over the gorse on left.  This was from back tees, with a light into wind.

[Tim Bert]

Tom - I thought Tom bringing the hammer down was a perfect finale to #2.  Did you notice how I updated the subject line for your lazy ass, so you know when we're discussing a new hole?

I'm going to slow the pace down over the weekend just because I notice a lot of regular folks disappear those days.  I'll probably post #4 pictures Saturday evening, and then let it sit until Monday night before I return with #5.