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Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2008, 04:15:50 PM »
There is simply no comparison between playing a public course versus being a member of a private club.  I would say that there often are upscale public courses which are better architecturally and perhaps even as to conditioning, but they still aren't private clubs.  The question is whether the benefits of membership are worth it to you and they go way behind the comparison of the courses.

There are some upscale public courses in my area which offer you an annual membership which can make it more reasonable, but when there are no tee times open, or the course is closed for an outing, or it is going to take 5 hours to play a round, the bargain is not so great.

The food minimums are usually not that steep and the prices are fair and you don't have to wait in line, etc.  Many private clubs allow you to walk and carry, in fact, my home course has push carts available.

The fact is that at a private club you feel no pressure and most of the other members have the same interest as you - to enjoy the course and the amenities which the club has to offer.  You want to go out and hit balls, go ahead; you want to play a few holes in the afternoon, go ahead; you want to go back out for an afternoon nine, go ahead.  The flexibility is incredible.

Finally, if the club is member owned and you have an opinion, they will listen to you.  It doesn't mean that the change will be made, but at least you will feel that someone will actually pay attention to what you have to say. 

I joined a member owned club last year and immediately volunteered for  the greens committee.  You learn the economics of running a golf course and how others view golf course conditioning. 

Can it be frustrating, yes, but there is a whole lot of satisifaction when you go out to your club and know the other members and there is always a friendly hello.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2008, 04:29:14 PM »
Well said, Jerry.

It's the "Norm!" factor, as my friend Eric Pevoto put it a few years ago.

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2008, 07:32:25 PM »
Here are some of the courses I'm looking to join in South Jersey. 

Links Golf Club
Medford Village
Medford Lakes
Little Mill
Has anyone ever played any of these courses? or is anyone a member that knows a bit about the courses?

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2008, 12:21:38 AM »
Rick,

Jamie Slonis here knows about Little Mill.

Are Tavistock (recent re-do) or Woodcrest (mostly Flynn) options?

How about Running Deer?

I guess Hidden Creek is too far away.

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2008, 12:55:58 AM »
Here are some of the courses I'm looking to join in South Jersey. 

Links Golf Club
Medford Village
Medford Lakes
Little Mill
Has anyone ever played any of these courses? or is anyone a member that knows a bit about the courses?


Rick, Medford looks like it's pretty solid. If these are all the same price, it seems it would be the class of the group.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2008, 07:18:50 AM »
Dave,
Which Medford looked soild, Medford Lakes or Medford Village? 

I did also look at Woodcrest- that is an awesome course by Flynn.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2008, 08:07:41 AM »
Rick - Woodcrest IS an awesome Flynn course buried under way too many trees.  IIRC, they've also allowed some fairway bunkers to become grassy areas, and have significantly narrowed the fairways.

I've only played it once, but I have fond memories of some wonderful par 3's out there.

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2008, 08:24:04 AM »
Put your prejudices aside and play Sea Oaks which is off the Garden State Parkway - it's in a retirement community but is a heck of a track - Matt Ward put me on to it and I was very pleasantly surprised.

John Kavanaugh

Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2008, 08:44:30 AM »
Put your prejudices aside and play Sea Oaks which is off the Garden State Parkway - it's in a retirement community but is a heck of a track - Matt Ward put me on to it and I was very pleasantly surprised.

It may be a great course but retirees are the bane of any membership.  I would stay away from any course where more than two foresomes of retired people play on any given day.

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #59 on: May 29, 2008, 10:17:36 AM »
Dave,
Which Medford looked soild, Medford Lakes or Medford Village? 

 


Medoford Village. The Lakes doesn't look bad, but the yardage is pretty short, no?
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

tlavin

Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #60 on: May 29, 2008, 10:27:52 AM »
I guess I should give a reality check to this kid so he doesn't get in over his head.  In April I spent $1478.94 in addition to my dues at the club where I play the most.  Whatever you think you are going to spend on booze, food, carts, caddies, shirts, wedges, balls, tournaments, lodging and guests you better double it long term and triple it when the course is new and fresh.  note:  Set up the bill to come directly to you at work and lie, lie, lie to your wife about the costs.

Sage advice, indeed!

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #61 on: May 29, 2008, 04:11:35 PM »
Put your prejudices aside and play Sea Oaks which is off the Garden State Parkway - it's in a retirement community but is a heck of a track - Matt Ward put me on to it and I was very pleasantly surprised.

It may be a great course but retirees are the bane of any membership.  I would stay away from any course where more than two foresomes of retired people play on any given day.

John - where will you play when YOU'RE retired?  ;)


John Kavanaugh

Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #62 on: May 29, 2008, 04:22:36 PM »
Put your prejudices aside and play Sea Oaks which is off the Garden State Parkway - it's in a retirement community but is a heck of a track - Matt Ward put me on to it and I was very pleasantly surprised.

It may be a great course but retirees are the bane of any membership.  I would stay away from any course where more than two foresomes of retired people play on any given day.

John - where will you play when YOU'RE retired?  ;)




I don't know for sure but I think it proves my point when you consider what kind of pisshole I will be in another 30 years.   I'll probably end up like Cirba playing alone in the rain hoping to catch a cold and end the misery.

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #63 on: June 02, 2008, 08:42:02 AM »
Thanks to everyone who discussed this issue with me.  I think I have decided after this weekend that maybe putting out extra money a month is well worth it for a private club.  I was going to play a local muni this weekend.  When I got to the driving range, a husband and wife were there and there little kids were running around screaming and the parents did nothing.  Then I pulled up to the course to get a tee time only to see 7 carts lined up at tee box 1.  At the hole near the first tee, I looked over to see a cart full of teenagers with baggy shorts and there hat turned backwards taking crazy swings at the ball and laughing out loud.  I decided not to play and at that point said to myself a little more  money will mean a lot more enjoyment on the course.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #64 on: June 02, 2008, 09:54:17 AM »
Put your prejudices aside and play Sea Oaks which is off the Garden State Parkway - it's in a retirement community but is a heck of a track - Matt Ward put me on to it and I was very pleasantly surprised.

It may be a great course but retirees are the bane of any membership.  I would stay away from any course where more than two foresomes of retired people play on any given day.

John - where will you play when YOU'RE retired?  ;)

I can testify that contractors never retire.  There are only working contractors and dead contractors, no retired contractors.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2008, 09:57:00 AM »
I guess I should give a reality check to this kid so he doesn't get in over his head.  In April I spent $1478.94 in addition to my dues at the club where I play the most.  Whatever you think you are going to spend on booze, food, carts, caddies, shirts, wedges, balls, tournaments, lodging and guests you better double it long term and triple it when the course is new and fresh.  note:  Set up the bill to come directly to you at work and lie, lie, lie to your wife about the costs.

Sage advice, indeed!

That is Rule #1 about being a member of a private club.  The monthly bill goes to the office.  Same for the American Express bill.  Those two bills NEVER go to the house.  This is based on 40 years of happily married life.

Rule #2: in case you ever forget Rule #1, you will remember why you followed it originally.

Rule #3: don't sweat the shoe purchases by the spouse.  It's a small price.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2008, 10:11:17 AM »
I must say that after Tim Bert reminded me of Barney's post #32 during our round Saturday,  Sunday Communion was pretty much ruined.

Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2008, 10:14:51 AM »
Bill,
That is some great advice I will follow.   Hopefully the club I join will send me a bill and not put it directly on the credit card.  There is an old saying about leaving a paper trail.  Do you take appointments for marriage therapy?

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2008, 10:18:36 AM »
Bill,
What is some wise advise if the wife has a problem with joining a club- money not time away?  How do I spin that and still live to see another day of marriage?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2008, 10:25:17 AM »
I know my wife only began to look at me sideways when she suspected I was a member at three clubs.  Of course, this was only true for a month or so. 

Belonging to a private club has many great advantages that can't be properly tallied - if you take advantage of what is on offer - many members of clubs do not.  Still, despite what some say about the personal/social side of membership, for me, it must be the course that brings me back.  People come and go, change their habits, whatever.  The course has to be the main reason I pay my dues. 

I agree that slapping down $5000 a year (for how many months?) isn't necessarily cheap and I would have to think long and hard about it myself.  Somebody said that if the money is potentially an essential bit of cash you may need for other things, than its a no brainer - you aren't ready to join a club.  That person is right.  Follow your gut and you won't need anynore advice.

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #70 on: June 02, 2008, 12:57:29 PM »
Bill,
What is some wise advise if the wife has a problem with joining a club- money not time away?  How do I spin that and still live to see another day of marriage?

I had that problem when I first joined a club 25 years ago, but my wife was swayed by the fact that my son was 12 at the time and sure to start playing golf.  Sure enough, he lived out there the next summer.  Our girls never got into golf but spent a lot of time playing tennis and swimming.

I pitched it as family fun and a one time investment (initiation fee).  It worked so well that in later years she has taken up golf very seriously and plays four times a week usually. 

It has been great for us and I cannot feature myself playing at a mish mash of public courses with no guys I know to play with and no family recreational opportunities.

Steve_Lovett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2008, 02:23:50 PM »
Bill,
What is some wise advise if the wife has a problem with joining a club- money not time away?  How do I spin that and still live to see another day of marriage?

I had that problem when I first joined a club 25 years ago, but my wife was swayed by the fact that my son was 12 at the time and sure to start playing golf.  Sure enough, he lived out there the next summer.  Our girls never got into golf but spent a lot of time playing tennis and swimming.

I pitched it as family fun and a one time investment (initiation fee).  It worked so well that in later years she has taken up golf very seriously and plays four times a week usually. 

It has been great for us and I cannot feature myself playing at a mish mash of public courses with no guys I know to play with and no family recreational opportunities.

Bill - well said - I'm in total agreement with you.  The value of this can't be understated.  There is a lot of talk about the "purity" of a golf-only environment, but a quality private club with great people, excellent food, a great setting, and top-flight recreational facilities (pool/tennis) - together with a very good golf course - can yield a wonderful family experience.

There's a place for "pure golf only" - maybe someday I'll find that place - but in the meantime quality golf, the personal/social reward, and family bliss prevails.


Dan Boerger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2008, 04:42:01 PM »
Seems to me that if someone wanted "pure golf only" they would be better served by not joining a club, since money spent on admission, dues, etc. could be put to pure golf experiences. I myself am addicted to the game (need to be the way I'm playing these days), but joined a club as much for the ability to recreate with my family on a range of activities.
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Drew Standley

Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2008, 05:41:52 PM »
I guess I should give a reality check to this kid so he doesn't get in over his head.  In April I spent $1478.94 in addition to my dues at the club where I play the most.  Whatever you think you are going to spend on booze, food, carts, caddies, shirts, wedges, balls, tournaments, lodging and guests you better double it long term and triple it when the course is new and fresh.  note:  Set up the bill to come directly to you at work and lie, lie, lie to your wife about the costs.

Sage advice, indeed!

I had this conversation yesterday with a few friends.   ;D

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Daily Fee vs. Private
« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2008, 06:20:39 PM »
Another key reason for us is that my wife Laura plays very frequently.  If we were to play Beechtree, a very good, moderately priced course, it'd cost us $95 each, or $190.  Do it twice on the weekend, you're up to $380.

Needless to say, the public route was much more expensive than our family membership.  Plus, you get all the benefits of club golf.

You save even more if you have kids that play the game.

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