[David_Elvins]

Just curious about the origin of water hazards, or should I say, static water hazards such as dams, ponds, lakes.  Was there any architect before RTJ who featured these prolifically?

Allison at Hirono and Ross at Seminole both featured  these hazards aggresively but I do not think that this was standard for these architects.  Am I right?

Is there any particular course or architect who was influential or responsible for the proliferation of these hazards before RTJ?

Thanks.

[Dennis_Harwood]

God at St Andrews?  And the other seaside courses of Scotland? (The burns--which were really the thin sewer ditches from the upland cities to the sea that ran through the original links courses--watery filth they were refered to in the original rules)

[David_Elvins]

oops, if I didnt make myself clear in the first post, I wa talking about static (and often man made)  water hazrds such as ponds, dams and lakes (as distinct from streams, creeks, burns, rivers, bays, seas, oceans, etc.)

cheers,

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

David,
I would have to imagine that the reason that Ross used them at Seminole was the terrain.  Which would make sense as to why the ponds were absent from his northeast designs.

In so as the first, Augusta would seem to be a candidate, though 16 was expanded by RTJ, so maybe you answered your own question.

[Mike Clayton]

David
I think the first man made water hazard was the one Colt built at the 5th at Sunningdale.It is a not very big pond that comes into play if you drive it into the fairway bunkers on the right and try to reach the green 150 yards away.
Maybe it's 100 yards to carry the water from them.

[Chris_Hunt]

Here is the pond at Sunningdale, mentioned previously by Mike, and added a little before 1910 by Colt to Park's Old Sunningdale design.  It is functional I suppose...

From the tee, it is a little blobby, but not terrible.



A bit closer, revealing the wooden retaining planks.

[BCrosby]

The Athens CC (GA) has a relativley large, man-made lake in the middle of the property. Ross designed the course around the lake in 1924 (about 5 years before Seminole). The lake requires 3 forced carries.  There is no greenside water, however.

I would think that there are lots of other examples of man-made/non-greenside water on Golden Age courses, though I don't know.  

On the other hand, I would guess that examples of man-made greenside water are very rare before RTJ and Dick Wilson. At least in the US.

Anyone have counterexamples?

Bob

P.S.  Has anyone in the history of gca used more man-made greenside water than Bob Cupp?

[David_Elvins]

Mike,

Thanks for explaining the functionality of the water hazard at Sunningdale.  I always assumed it was not meant to come into play.

[Dave_Miller]

David:

In the Northeast Ross did not make much use of man-made ponds that I am aware of.
Charles River, Winchester, BraeBurn, Aronimink, etc. have a few natural ponds but I don't think the original construction added any of these.
The pond on 10 at Aronimink was removed in the 40's and re-stored this year but it is in an area where there is another pond and a wetlands behind it so I think it was probably part of the terrain originally.  
I'm not sure where man made ponds, etc. came from.

The East Course at Admirals Cove in Jupiter, Fl. has a number of canals on the course but these are natural bodies of water that Robert Von Hagge used in building the course.  Did a nice job of integrating these into the golf course.

Fairways and Greens,
Dave

[Paul_Turner]

Sunningdale's 5th: blimey, I once stupidly walked that bridge/plank in the rain in metal spikes and bag on back.  I strode out bravely but turned rather meek half way across, the last few "strides" were extremely cautious!

[Dave_Miller]

Paul:

I admire your courage in walking that plank but I do question your judgment.

Best
Dave

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