[PThomas]

they just showed a graphic indicating that thru all of the majors (incl Senior ones) that have been played here, a TOTAL of about 12 players have finished under par!

why is that?  seems like OH is kind of overlooked when discussing this country's stiffest tests

[David Stamm]

I was amazed by this as well, Paul. Oak Hill isn't typically one of the first courses that come to mind when discussing the country's sternest tests, but all evidence says otherwise.

[Mike Sweeney]

That rough today was silly. If they want to make the Seniors look like me, mission accomplished. A drive in the rough was automatic bogey. My guess is there are 10 courses more interesting to play in the Upstate NY Chalfont Corridor.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Paul,

I've almost come to the conclusion that the golf course is irrelevant, that it's strictly a combination of length and set-up/course preparation.

[Cliff Hamm]

I would agree.  Any course, literally any course, can be made formidable by having bowling alley fairways, impossible rough and super fast greens.  Architecture is becoming meaningless in the majors.  I have come to the conclusion over the past few years that the PGA is the best set up of the American majors.

[David Stamm]

Paul,

I've almost come to the conclusion that the golf course is irrelevant, that it's strictly a combination of length and set-up/course preparation.

Patrick, not to hijack Paul's thread, but that was part of my rant on the thread I started about Major Venues.

[PThomas]

Paul,

I've almost come to the conclusion that the golf course is irrelevant, that it's strictly a combination of length and set-up/course preparation.

Pat - i understand what you are saying, but is Oak Hill therefore just set up harder than almost every other course?  and if so, why?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Paul,

I think the rough in the Northeast is particularly difficult at this time of year.

It's dense, high and healthy, making extrication very difficult.

In addition, as wonderful as these golfers are, they're not strong young college kids or great PGA Tour players.

David Stamm,

I think hi-tech with respect to I & B has led those responsible for the conducting of a golf tournament, like an eel trap, to the mono-set up we keep seeing.

It's unfortunate that those who sit on boards and green committees see this week after week and want their course to emulate those conditions, especially if their course is going to host a substantive amateur or professional tournament sometime during the season.

[John Foley]

Three things about Oak Hill this past week:

1- Density of the rough. It's brutal. It should haver been cut back and it is far & away the #1 reason for the higher scores this week. As bad as it was in the fw, around the greens was very difficult to control distance and trajectory ans hence made up & down for pars very hard to come by.

2- Putting the greens. Birdie opp's and their conversion was way down. I saw some incredibly difficult pins (front right on 13 on Friday for example) that a three footer above or to the side of the hole was just not going to be easy. I did not see one pin on Friday when i was there that had the pin not tucked in a corner. Not a single one.

3- The wind , especially Thursday and Friday, was a major factor. It may not have looked it, but it was blowing consistently those two days and to a lesser degree Sat & Sun.

Given the weather we've had, the rough was going to be very dense and very difficult. Should they have cut it back to encourage more options? Sure.

Lastly - I'll echo's Pat's comments. While these are world class golfers, I was very suprised how poorly they played as a field. It wasn't all set up this week. O'mera shot 64 on Fri Am. There should have been a few of those on the weekend.

[Jay Flemma]

I'll vote for Oakmont and Winged Foot as the hardest time and again.

[Phil_the_Author]

Both the Ocan Course and Bethpage Black should also be given serious consideration.

[Garland Bayley]

Am I not mistaken, but wasn't Oak Hill considered to be a bit of a push over (perhaps giving up an Open scoring record) before RTJ was brought in to toughen it up before Hogan's win there?

[Steve Lang]

  it appeared the long grass won, nothing more.. 

p.s. sharks can't hide in high grass

[JNC Lyon]

That's Oakland Hills in Bloomfield, Michigan.  Oak Hill and the Ocean Course would be my votes for toughest courses around.  remember the course today played about 6,700 yards.

[Matt_Ward]

I've been to Oak Hill numerous time over the years -- both to play and to cover various events (although not this year's Sr PGA).

I agree with a few of the other posts thus far.

No doubt the weather played a major role -- playing in Upstate NY in May is no bargain -- the weather can turn literally in a second and demonstrated that.

The thickness of the rough also played a major role -- clearly the length and density should have been better thought out given the nature of the field involved (senior members).

Oak Hill / East requires a steady diet of tee shots that can find the narrow landing areas. Miss and it becomes a real torture track to recover.

Is the archictecture that compelling ?

In some spots -- I'd say yes. I am a big time fan of the uphill short par-4 14th but there's plenty of other holes that are extremely demanding because of man's hands to manipulate such outcomes -- see the uphill dog-leg right 17th as an example even though Haas eagled it Saturday.

But ultimately, if the forces that be that set up a course want to make any course play next to impossible it can be done. The PGA needs to re-think what was done with Oak Hill / East because clearly the field took a major beating and provided for yawn TV viewing.

[Phil Benedict]

I think the standard for what constitutes the most difficult test ought to be when the set up doesn't include ridiculously penal rough.  Any course can be made hard by narrowing fairways and growing the rough.  For all the criticisms of Augusta here, at least you can still advance the ball from the rough, which certainly wasn't the case at Oak Hill this weekend.

I think there is a distinction between architecture - permanent features like sloped greens and bunkers - and set up - changeable features like rough height and fairway width.  It seems that set up has become more important in major events, which is sad.

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