Fescues at Hidden Creek (Coore and Crenshaw) and photos

[wsmorrison]

I played in a match at Hidden Creek yesterday.  While sitting down to lunch with the golf society, I ran into Big Mike Sweeney there, which was a welcome surprise. 

Anyway, the fescues in the rough and around the bunkers were about perfect!  The fescue areas were wispy and not too dense.  It was relatively easy to find the ball and the resulting lies ranged from good to bad.  But the worse lies allowed you to recover to the fairway with a high probability of success.  The best lies enabled you to advance the ball as much as you like, though without spin.  What a great course and what a wonderful presentation.

I'll tell you one thing, putting on greens with so much internal contouring is difficult when one is used to putting on greens with interplays of slope.  It took a few greens to get a proper feel.  I made my first 4-putt of the year on the second green when my approach rolled to the back of the green and the pin was just a step or two on the front.  I was short with my first two putts then ran the third past.  Ugh    But it was great fun and everyone enjoyed themselves immensely.

Here are some photos:

[Mike Bowline]

Wayne, thanks for taking the pictures. Those bunker edged look especially nice with the tall, rough-edged fescue.

[Dan Herrmann]

I fondly remember our GCA get-together at Hidden Creek.  What a wonderful golf course!

I love the photo of the par 3 showing what the HC superindendent called, "the purple haze".    I was amazed just how great the fescue areas were - they almost reminded me of the Bandon courses, they were so good.

Thanks for the pictures!

[Jim Johnson]

Wayne, thanks for posting the pics. I wish more people did. Great stuff.

I had the good fortune of being hosted by super Duane Sharpe at Blackhawk (Rod Whitman/Jeff Mingay course design) in Edmonton, Alberta last summer. Sharpee showed me their fescues, how they had been planted, and how they were maintained. We discussed Friar's Head, and I mentioned to him that I'd read about how they had planted their fescues so that you could still (fairly) easily find your ball and advance it. Sharpee explained that Blackhawk was basically the same, that with proper planting and maintenance they could have the same look and feel. It produced a great look and was an interesting part of the course and the total experience.

[Mike_Cirba]

Man...those purples are gorgeous!

Thanks for sharing, Wayne.

[Chip Gaskins]

Wayne-

Wow, these look fantastic, the par three looks like something from Swinley Forest.  This place looks like a nomination for one of the best courses on pretty flat land.  Man I love sandy soil with C&C.

Chip-

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The 4th hole- the long par 3- has been my nemesis at HC. I've decided to hit driver(I'm 63,give me a break ) on my next visit as I think it's better to be long and not short.

Thanks for the pictures. One of the best courses in the area.

[Dan Herrmann]

Will the fescue seed heads eventually result in a general filling-in of the rough?  In other words, will it become a challenge to keep the really great playability over time?

[Jason Mandel]

Wayne,

Your comment about the fescue at Hidden Creek is spot on.  In my opinion it is the poster-child for how fescue like that should play.  In my opinion, in the past the fescue at white manor has been way too thick, almost to the point of unplayable.  We are trying to thin it out but its not easy to do.  Hidden Creek has nailed the perfect mix of both beautiful, challenging and FAIR.

The greens are pretty spectacular at Hidden Creek.  They have to be some of the biggest in the district.

The par 3 4th hole absolutely has to be one of the best par's in the area.  H

Jason

[Patrick_Mucci]

Wayno,

Thanks for the photos.

Hidden Creek is both a challenging and a fun golf course to play.

You made an interesting comment about the greens.

Those contours sure are hard to read and putt on.

What's even more difficult is gaging them when you're pitching or chipping.

I'm thinking about hosting another GCA get together at Hidden Creek this fall.

Bill Coore was kind enough to be our keynote speaker, so, it'll be a tough act to follow.

The very wide fairways give every level of golfer a sporting chance.

But, those greens, each one slightly elevated above the fronting fairway, sure are challenging.

Thanks again for the pictures.

[Willie_Dow]

Yes, Jason - you and Wayne have found what C&C have delivered for the perfect rough!

Not too confining, yet demanding - and somewhat easily maintained.

As an every day course of play, I would chose Hidden Creek as my perfect formula for something I would look forward to every morning.

Willie

[Patrick_Mucci]

Willie,

The first time I played Hidden Creek, as soon as I walked off of the 18th green, I wanted to go straight to the 1st tee.

That's one of my critical tests for determining the merits of a golf course.

[Sean_A]

The course does look a treat and it does remind me of a heathlands track, but with wild greens. 

I have one question.  Time and again I see rough ringing bunkers.  Either a strip circling the bunker as in this case or wide swaths of rough cutting bunkers off from the fairway.  I don't think I ever got a reason for encircling bunkers with rough.  Since I see it so often on modern courses I figure there must be a good reason.  What is the reason?

Wayne - thanks for posting the pix

Ciao 

[Mike Sweeney]

I played in a match at Hidden Creek yesterday.  While sitting down to lunch with the golf society, I ran into Big Mike Sweeney there, which was a welcome surprise. 

That guy gets around. 

It was nice to finally meet Willie Dow, great pics Wayne. After some heavy rains, I continue to be a big fan of sand based courses, and Hidden Creek also plays great in the off season for this reason.

For anyone playing there this summer, I strongly recommend "Lou from The Bear's Club" in Florida. He may not look like Sasha at Bandon, but he was the best caddy I ever had on the greens and he had only been there a few weeks.

[Dan Herrmann]

Sean - the rough collaring the bunkers is a maintenance move.  We tried having some areas with little "non-fairway" near bunkers, but they tended to burn out in the heat of the summer.

[Michael Moore]

What's the story with those shrub-looking things that are on the margins of a few bunkers?

[wsmorrison]

Michael,

The caddy said it was Scotch Broom, but it didn't look that way to me, or at least not like the variety I'm used to at Merion.

Sean,

I didn't end up in a single bunker the other day (imagine that), but my playing companions did.  The relatively small margins of rough on the leading edges of the bunkers did little if anything to stop balls entering the bunkers.

[Rich Goodale]

I haven't been there, Michael, but my expert opinion is that they are shrubs.

[Rich Goodale]

BTW, Michael (and Wayne)

Both broom and gorse are shrubs.  Perhaps because they are Scottish they are more welcome on faux links golf courses than other shrubs, say, hydrangeas.......

Rich

[Dean Stokes]

I do get the feeling of a modern day Ganton/Linderick/Moortown. I hear they got the greens running around 13 a couple weeks ago. How does that make the course play given that many of you are saying there is a lot of undulation in the greens? Is it fair?

Sounds and looks like a 'must play'. Is there any elevation change at all on the golf course?

[Dan Herrmann]

Dean,
There's not much elevation change. IIRC, Bill Coore said it was almost completely flat when they started.

And you're right - it's definitely a must play.

[wsmorrison]

There were some heavy rains the day before we played (and just after we finished) so I don't know if that impacted their mowing schedule.  The greens were in great shape but they were nowhere near 13.  Probably played at 10-10.5.  Though I think the practice green was faster.

[John Sabino]

Wayne - thanks for the great pictures. Played it about a month ago with barely any fescue at the time, huge change in one month.

Pat - good idea to setup another event in the Fall.

Dean - a bit of elevation change on the uphill par three 11th and difficult par four 12th, but basically flat. As Ran states in his review, much more like Sunningdale than a Ganton or Moortown. Very short walks tee to green, easy walking course. Great caddies and nice lodges for overnight stays.

[Jordan Caron]

That longish looking downhill par 3 reminds me a bit of #3 at Blackhawk.  I also love that slight uphill par 3 11th with what looks like a nice run off at the back. 

I'll assume that the course is private but just how private is it?

Thanks for the pics Wayne, you have just opened my eyes to yet another C&C I would love to play!

[Michael Ryan]

I had the great pleasure of playing Hidden Creek in mid April and catching up with an old friend in Ian Dalzell.  My friends and I were really impressed with a golf course that played so firm and fast and it was April 19th!  As I look at the pics, I realize that we missed out on a great aspect of HC, as the fescue was not "up" a month ago.  Believe me, we had enough trouble with the golf course in the state we found it, I don't think we needed anything more challenging.  HC had so many things that I look to in a great golf course, a driveable par 4 (where we all bogied), a par 3 that puts a short iron in your hand but has double bogey all over it if you hit a loose shot, and most of all, OPTIONS!  I really think there is something special at Hidden Creek and I hope to get another crack at it.

Mike