Best mainland U.S. Nicklaus course with no homes on it?

[Keith Grande]

Thoes which I have played:
 
Dismal River
 
Bayside on the Delaware/Maryland Border. There are homes in a development, but nowhere near the course, as it weaves through marshland.
 
 

[Nigel Islam]

Valhalla

[Scott Little]

Old Works in Montana was a fun course without homes.  It could also serve as a template for how a golf course can provide a positive environmental impact as it was constructed on a Superfund site. 

[Tom_Doak]

Old Works in Montana was a fun course without homes.  It could also serve as a template for how a golf course can provide a positive environmental impact as it was constructed on a Superfund site.

I really liked the golf course at Old Works ... especially the front nine.


However, templates for environmental impact that require tens of millions of dollars in taxpayer money, probably don't have much future.  Last I heard, even with the subsidy provided, the course was in danger of closing as its operation exceeds revenues.

[Kalen Braley]

Given the citeria of mainland, no homes, and no collaboration.
 
The Nicklaus course up in Park City, Painted Valley at Promontory,  is a pretty decent track, although its long as hell.  7000 from the white tees.  A few of the holes are outstanding as the terrain has quite a bit of elevation differential.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Kalen.


You haven't been to Promontory lately as housing has started on the Nicklaus course:


http://promontoryclub.com/nicklaus-hillside/

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen.


You haven't been to Promontory lately as housing has started on the Nicklaus course:


http://promontoryclub.com/nicklaus-hillside/

You're right, its been a few years.  Is the housing set pretty far back or right on the course?  The housing on the Pete Dye course had some fairly nice setback distances as I remember it.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Kalen,


According to the plan in the link, it looks like the housing is on the right side of the first hole. I think it's on a hillside.

[Bill Seitz]

I don't believe Old Works has any housing on it.  I'm not sure it would even be legal on a Superfund site.  It does look like there's a new subdivision somewhere near the second green/third tee, but it's not really on the golf course. 

[Andrew Simpson]

The only one that fits the bill is Valhalla and it also happens to be my favourite Nicklaus course I've played.
I got a similar feeling to playing Dornoch where there is just a feeling that makes you feel calm and in a good mood.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I liked the Outlaw course at Desert Mountain.


However, in the past it was not overseeded, and it was brownish/yellowish/greenish and played F & F, and didn't get much play.


Now, it's overseeded, is green and gets far more play.


What does that tell you about golfer's preferences when it comes to conditions and the quality of playing surfaces ?

[scott_wood]

Am not nominating it as 'best', but Coyote Chase is 'homeless in (North) Las Vegas....


Of course, the original plans, with PGA participation of some sort, were for approx 30,000 homes ( and 10+) more courses...

[mike_beene]

The Dallas Athletic Club blue course is a good no homes course. I think Nicklaus had free reign on both courses so they seem to be treated as Nicklaus course as opposed to renovations.

[Philip Caccamise]

Am not nominating it as 'best', but Coyote Chase is 'homeless in (North) Las Vegas....


Of course, the original plans, with PGA participation of some sort, were for approx 30,000 homes ( and 10+) more courses...

Coyote Springs is good, but who would even consider building a house all the way out there? Cousin Eddie?

[MCirba]

Does Breckenridge have houses on it these days?  I recall that one with fondness but it's been 20 years.

Bayside in DE is pretty darn good but can kill you if your approach shots are wayward.

[Scott Little]

Old Works in Montana was a fun course without homes.  It could also serve as a template for how a golf course can provide a positive environmental impact as it was constructed on a Superfund site.

I really liked the golf course at Old Works ... especially the front nine.


However, templates for environmental impact that require tens of millions of dollars in taxpayer money, probably don't have much future.  Last I heard, even with the subsidy provided, the course was in danger of closing as its operation exceeds revenues.

Sir,


     I would argue that tens of millions to cover, conceal, and suppress an ecological disaster zone which can provide public use of the land is a far better alternative than the hundreds of millions to remove/clean the waste of a past generation.  However, I am not an expert in reclamation projects or Superfund clean-ups. 

[Scott Weersing]

The Nicklaus Course at Bay Creek GC,


http://www.baycreekresort.com/resort/golf/jack-nicklaus-course/


It has no homes on the course but there is the strange 5th hole with a green between two sand dunes. The 6th hole is a blind par 3.


It is one of the best Nicklaus courses I played but it is hard because the wind blows and the course was not designed for high winds, especially the 7th and 8th holes.


I am not sure if there will be homes on the course as there are homes around the Palmer Course.

[Dave McCollum]

Coyote Springs doesn't have houses.  However, the master plan by the tribe at one point called for multiple courses and housing for something like 125,000 people.  It may be desolate on the surface, but the tribe owns the subsurface water rights.  Such a grandiose development plan may be nothing but a bluff to increase the value of the water.  Whatever, there must be a lot there to even come up with such numbers.

[JWL]

Just a couple of points of clarification on Ferry Point.    John Sanford was the Construction Manager of the project.   Jack Nicklaus was the solo designer.   The collaboration comes in because Sanford was chosen in an RFP to bring all the needed disciplines to complete the project and his company oversaw the construction of the project.    The golf course contractor was selected in a separate bid by NYPR.   Trump also won an RFP to maintain and operate the golf course for the NYCPR.   Trump's deal was he would construct the maintenance facility and the clubhouse as part of his contract.    The golf course was going to be completed, as Trump came in at the very end when the grow in was beginning.   His superintendent and management team in doing a terrific job at Ferry Point.
In regards to the golf course construction starting before Sebonack, is just not factual.   There was an original routing done by Nicklaus Design, but it was for a completely different style golf course than what is out there today.    I know that because I went through the routing changes as the project evolved from the original private developer to NYCPR taking over the project and moving it forward with the RFP that Sanford was awarded.   Part of Sanford's team was a golf course designer, and Jack Nicklaus was asked by Sanford to participate under the Sanford RFP team.    Jack had considerable time and effort already in the project for several years, and he was happy to change the course style when it was determined that the necessary fill dirt for the present concept could be delivered to the site, and he saw great potential in what could be created.   Hope this adds some clarity to what transpired over several years.

[Mac Plumart]

Dismal in a landslide.