Steep Uphill Holes that Work

[Kalen Braley]

The 9th at Oakmont.

I would also have said the 13th at Oakmont, but I got shouted down - and deservedly so, after someone Googled the elevation change - that it's not very uphill.

The 17th at Oakmont is one of the great short par 4s and it is very uphill. (Don't anyone Google me wrong on this one or I'm going in for Lasiks tomorrow.)

Oakmont is the poster child for excellent usage of some difficult terrain.

Ok George,

I think you're OK. 

Pasa #11 - 110 feet uphill.  If thats not severly uphill, I don't know what is.
Oak #17 - 60 feet.  Definitly uphill, I would agrue it fits this category.
Olympic #7 - 50 Feet.  borderline, fits I think
Olympice #17 - 40 feet.  For its length, this don't seem to be "steeply uphill"

[Phil McDade]

The 1st at West Bend CC, a Wisconsin course whose front nine was designed by Langford and Moreau, probably qualifies. A very good, gradually building uphill par 4. Don't have pics; other posters might.

[Kalen Braley]

For you bay area boys, Tilden #1 which is a toughie opening par 4, also plays over 100 feet uphill. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Many trees are now gone

[cary lichtenstein]

The par 5 4th hole at Lakota Canyon is one of my favorite uphillers

[Matthew Mollica]

In Melbourne, we have a series of great short uphill par 3s.

Yarra Yarra 11 & 15
Royal Melbourne West 7
Kingston Heath 15
Victoria 14

All mid irons and all feature greens dozens of metres above the tee.

MM

[Tom_Doak]

Matthew:

"Dozens of meters uphill" is a misstatement of fact.  A dozen meters is about forty feet, and of the holes you listed, only the 14th at Victoria could possibly be that much of a rise.  Not surprisingly, it is my least favorite of those you listed by far.

Stone Eagle had five holes with rises of forty feet or more.  I think the best of those turned out to be the second and fifth holes, both two-shotters.  They both benefit tremendously from the big mountain background that saves them from having the "blue sky" background which I generally dislike.

[Kalen Braley]

Matthew:

Stone Eagle had five holes with rises of forty feet or more.  I think the best of those turned out to be the second and fifth holes, both two-shotters.  They both benefit tremendously from the big mountain background that saves them from having the "blue sky" background which I generally dislike.

Tom,

Are you saying in general you don't prefer skyline greens?  Or severly uphill holes with skyling greens?   

I think they present an interesting challenge, but don't like to see too steady of a dose of them hole after hole.

[mark chalfant]

I have always liked  Fenway's  190 yard Eleventh. sharply uphill to a   robust green

Although its mostly a gradual climb,  I think  Pine Valleys  15th  is a marvelous  600  yards

[JC Jones]

Matthew:

"Dozens of meters uphill" is a misstatement of fact.  A dozen meters is about forty feet, and of the holes you listed, only the 14th at Victoria could possibly be that much of a rise.  Not surprisingly, it is my least favorite of those you listed by far.

Stone Eagle had five holes with rises of forty feet or more.  I think the best of those turned out to be the second and fifth holes, both two-shotters.  They both benefit tremendously from the big mountain background that saves them from having the "blue sky" background which I generally dislike.

Tom -

What is the rise on #10 at High Pointe.  Seems to me that green is several feet above the fairway.

[Kevin_Reilly]

For you bay area boys, Tilden #1 which is a toughie opening par 4, also plays over 100 feet uphill. 

That's a tough opener for my regular Sat morning crack-of-dawn crew (eg 5:30 am).  We play it as a par 4.5, though one of my group reached it with an 8 iron two weeks ago.  Amazing considering the drive and iron shots were his first and second swings of the morning.

[Joe Perches]

For you bay area boys, Tilden #1 which is a toughie opening par 4, also plays over 100 feet uphill. 

We play it as a par 4.5

Does it work?

Isn't Tilden #1 something like 400y from the back tee
and something like 100 feet uphill?

8%+ is pretty darn steep.
That's probably too steep for golf.
It's steeper than some ski runs.

I never thought the hold "worked",
I thought it was just too uphill,
but I haven't played there for a long while.

Aren't there some people that take double digits on that
hole and others that are winded just doing the walk?

That doesn't seem a useful, good way to start a round.
The time to complete the hole is too variable.

I think anything more uphill than 5% is too much.
A 60' foot increase over 400 yards could be OK,
more would not.

Is there a limit to % slope incline that "works"?

[Matt_Ward]

In the NY metro area -- try the 10th at Alpine CC (Demarest, NJ) for size. The Tillie layout is unique and the 10th a clear example on what was done previously from a construction viewpoint would never be replicated today.

The hole ONLY plays 330 yards but it C-L-I-M-B-S literally from the tee shot until the green -- roughly 100 feet at minimum from tee to green. Just walking up the hill can be a chore for those who lack the physical stamina.

Years ago the hole routinely made the top ten most demanding holes for handicap purposes in the MGA area. Quite a feat for such a short hole !

Nonetheless, the hole still works well.

[Kevin_Reilly]

For you bay area boys, Tilden #1 which is a toughie opening par 4, also plays over 100 feet uphill. 

We play it as a par 4.5

Does it work?

Isn't Tilden #1 something like 400y from the back tee
and something like 100 feet uphill?

8%+ is pretty darn steep.
That's probably too steep for golf.
It's steeper than some ski runs.

I never thought the hold "worked",
I thought it was just too uphill,
but I haven't played there for a long while.

Aren't there some people that take double digits on that
hole and others that are winded just doing the walk?

That doesn't seem a useful, good way to start a round.
The time to complete the hole is too variable.

I think anything more uphill than 5% is too much.
A 60' foot increase over 400 yards could be OK,
more would not.

Is there a limit to % slope incline that "works"?

Most of the steepness comes in the last 100 yds.  A reasonable drive leaves you anything from 150-180 yds uphill for your second shot.  That's not an impossible task.  The drive itself is wide open...you can swing away.  There are no bunkers on the hole, so you don't have to worry about that.  I've played the hole 150+ times with the same group of guys and getting on the green in two (even when second shots are hit in the morning darkness) is not unusual.  The 8 iron approach by one of the guys two weeks ago was an eye-opener.

[Mike_Clayton]

Matt Mollica.

I have to agree with Tom - those holes are hardly steeply uphill - except for 14 at Victoria and it is not as good as the others you mentioned.
It is hard to think of many in Australia.
The new 11th at Lake Karrinyup is a much better hole than it was and its way uphill. The 9th is also a good hole and it too climbs way up back to the clubhouse.
9 at Rosanna is steeply up and a good hole now.
There are no good uphill holes in Adelaide or Brisbane and none on the best four courses in Sydney.
The closest thing to a steeply uphill hole on the sandbelt is 12 North at Peninsula and its a good hole - but it is a real stretch to call it steep.

The steepest uphill hole in Australia is the 18th at Kingston Beach in Hobart - and the steepest downhill hole is the 1st. It is the poster child for why a clubhouse on top of a hill is not a good idea.

[Matthew Mollica]

Clayts,

I take your point on the holes I mentioned, as being uphill, rather than being really steep.

Where does the 2nd shot to #3 (originally #16) at National (Old) sit on the steepness scale?

MM

[James Bennett]

Matt Mollica.

The steepest uphill hole in Australia is the 18th at Kingston Beach in Hobart - and the steepest downhill hole is the 1st. It is the poster child for why a clubhouse on top of a hill is not a good idea.

Matt - Commonwealth #9 would fit in your list, but it is not steep.

Mike - you haven't had the pleasure of Mt Lofty #1, I presume.  240 yards uphill as a par 4.  Renowned for its cardiac qualities.  Has a fairway cut at about twice fairway height, to stop balls running backwards.  Reminds me of the steepness (and length) of the first at Painswick.  Perhaps Kingston Beach is even steeper.

And, good call on Rosanna #9.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Mike regarding good uphill holes - I can't think of any good steep ones in Adelaide either.  Perhaps the tee-shot on Glenelg #10 (it was #11), but the second shot is slightly downhill.  I assume St Andrews Beach #13 isn't in this category for some reason.  Although St Andrews Beach #2 and #14 are quite good for short par 4 uphill holes.

James B

[Doug Siebert]

Lahinch's 1st is a great example.  Its almost too nasty given that it is an opener, often played in some pretty severe winds, very F&F of course, and with the green so exposed it can provide quite a test to one's approach right off the bat.  Fortunately the 2nd hole allows an early opportunity to make up what may have lost to par on the 1st!

[Mike_Clayton]

James,

I have played the 1st at Mt Lofty.
It is one of the steepest in the world - the only hole I have seen where you could drive 230 yards and be 20 yards off the tee!!
18 at Kingston Beach is that steep for about 150 yards before levelling out - sort of.

[Glenn Spencer]

#1 at Gleneagles Kings

#18 at Canterbury

#15 Huntington CC

#5 Bethpage

#16? Oyster Bay

#1 Bethpage Red

[Ally Mcintosh]

Thanks for all the answers, folks... Some great help there...

For those who wished more definition, I'm looking for holes that have a gradient of 1 in 10 (10%) or steeper for large sections (note this doesn't have to be the average incline over the hole) or i in 5 (20%) for very short sections (or par-3's)...

This is very steep (hence the title of the thread)... There are a couple of good examples that we've had but any more would be welcome...

Also bear in mind the walking option... It's easy to ride a cart up most hills...

Ally

[Sean_A]

I couldn't offer a grade or amount of climb, but I can say that I think (with the rare exception) the 8th at Rolling Green is about the limit of the ideal range in terms of uphill shots.  I am guessing the green is 25-30 feet above the fairway floor.  This pic is from 200ish, maybe slightly more.  Anything much more than this really limits how well you can control the ball coming into the green.  As it is with this hole, I bet most people are faced with the killer downhill putt most of the time.  This lack of variety of the type of putt faced on these sorts of holes is perhaps the best argument for their limited use both in terms of not having too many on a course and with how long the hole can be. 


Ciao

[Chris Cupit]

Donald Ross could retire this category.

Cool hole--now someone needs to pull out that stupid looking landscaping behind the green and it would look even better

[Joe Perches]

For those who wished more definition, I'm looking for holes that have a gradient of 1 in 10 (10%) or steeper for large sections (note this doesn't have to be the average incline over the hole) or i in 5 (20%) for very short sections (or par-3's)...

I think Engineers #2 might qualify under that definition.

Ran's review:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/engineers2.html

It's mildly uphill until the green which is maybe 25 feet above the fairway.

It's not too severe, but the green elevation, the apparent backstop of a
hillock beyond and the highly contoured green makes for an interesting hole.

[Mike_Cirba]

The original 6th at Cobb's Creek was renowned, and rose about 90 feet from tee to the fairway about 180 yards above.

Both the 2nd and 11th at Leatherstocking are tremendous steeply uphill par fours that work well.

The 15th at Monroe GC in NY, which I played this past weekend, is an example of a tremendous uphill par four, as well.