Breaking 100 at Torrey???

[George Pazin]

If it is indeed US Open conditions, I'd be VERY surprised if Romo is able to break 80 in this event.  As a diehard Eagles fan, I hope he shoots 107.

i'll be looking for you in the gallery JES with a Jessica Simpson mask on

Jamie has the legs to pull it off, but not the...ahem... upper torso.

I'll take the over with Romo and 85, I'll take the over with everyone else at 100.

Huck, you're a tournament tested sub 5 index, no? Do you think you'd break 100 under this setup? 90?

[JSlonis]

If it is indeed US Open conditions, I'd be VERY surprised if Romo is able to break 80 in this event.  As a diehard Eagles fan, I hope he shoots 107.

i'll be looking for you in the gallery JES with a Jessica Simpson mask on

Jamie has the legs to pull it off, but not the...ahem... upper torso.

I'll take the over with Romo and 85, I'll take the over with everyone else at 100.

Huck, you're a tournament tested sub 5 index, no? Do you think you'd break 100 under this setup? 90?

Very funny George.

Ms. Simpson is indeed "gifted". 

[Tom Huckaby]

George:

At one point in my life I could perhaps call myself a somewhat competitive player.  That time is LONG ago, if it ever really existed at all.  I am right now a 3.8 index who plays once a month if he's lucky and never practices.

So I suck and I am not the issue.  An 8 point something index who plays a LOT - including a lot of competitive golf - would do far better at this event than I would.

I'd like to think though that if a double digit score was my sole and only goal - as it would be, I guess - I could do it.  Again, I'd play as conservatively as possible, and hope for a good ball-striking day.  I'll say the same for the right type of 10 handicapper.

Romo is a LOT LOT LOT better player than I am.

And I will continue to take the under on 85 for him.

TH

[Jim Colton]

I don't think Romo will break 80...I'm guessing he'll shoot 85-87, something like that.  A 10-handicapper would never break 100 on a US Open course.  I'm not sure why this is even up for debate, is it because Tiger brought it up last year at Oakmont?

[Glenn Spencer]

Is there something wrong with the math on this board or the handicap system. Romo is a +1 and that is 11 shots different than a 10 handicap. If he shoots in the 80's, the other guys should be breaking 100.

Romo shot 69 in the Azalea, there were 10 scores in the 60's that week including his 69. I would think the same field would post at least 10 scores of 74 or better on Torrey Pines, so there should be plenty of room for him to break 80, if he plays reasonably well.

[Phil Benedict]

George:

At one point in my life I could perhaps call myself a somewhat competitive player.  That time is LONG ago, if it ever really existed at all.  I am right now a 3.8 index who plays once a month if he's lucky and never practices.

Huck,

This is the saddest thing I've ever heard.  You spend more time on this web site than you do playing!

[Steve Kline]

Glenn - are you a plus handicap? I have been one for virtually 14 years with a low of +4 last year. Last week I played in the Carlton Woods Invitational - a tournament for Mid-Ams. We played two courses at 7,200 yards (400 less than Torrey Pines). There was virtually no rough on either course we played, the fairways were very wide imo, and the greens ran 13 the first day and 11-12 the next two days after some rain. These, courses have more water than Torrey so there was more of a chance for big numbers. While not everyone in the field was a plus handicap, these were all very good players - most guys had played in the Mid-Am and/or U.S. Am at least once and some were winners of the Texas state Am or Mid-Am. The average score for the three days was virtually 80.

The Azalea is played on a 6,600 yard course. I cannot stress enough how much an extra 1,000 yards will hurt Romo or any other golfer. One can easily recover from a missed drive on a 6,600 yard course. On a 7,600 yard course it is an automatic bogey and a very good chance at a double. I am on the short side off the tee (about 260-5 average) as virtually everyone I play with in top Mid-Am events drives it by me. I can hardly imagine 7,600 yards. I did play #2 from the Open tees 3 times last year. The course was soft, with no roll in the fairways and the greens were holding. Three par 4s every round I busted drives (for me) and every round I had three wood to the green. Now keep in mind the greens were soft so my long irons were holding and there was little rough. The greens were relatively slow which made chipping and putting easy. I shot 76, 75, 75. In U.S. Open conditions I don't see myself breaking 80 unless my short game is really, really on. All of that is to say that I think Romo has virtually no chance of breaking 80. 7,600 yards!!! Again, I say 7,600 yards!!! That is insane length for virtually anyone to play a golf course.

[George Pazin]

Steve, you are now up there with Jamie, Sully and MWP as a top tourney player whose opinion I will seek to read whenever possible.

Glenn, I'm amazed you focus on the 69 and ignore the big numbers. I would think the biggest single difference between a scratch or even a plus golfer and the tour pros would be consistency. I'd guess a lot of scratch/plus golfers have had an occasional round in the 60s in tournaments, but those are probably not the rule.

On a one shot deal, I say there's little chance Romo breaks 85. Give him a few cracks at it and I'd say he might through a couple low 80s - or even better - out there, but for a single round, I'm betting 85 or over.

A few years ago Johnny Bench and Mike Schmidt thought they were going to waltz onto the Senior Tour. They learned quickly how good these guys are.

[John Moore II]

I think a 10 handicap could break 100 on a US Open course, if he manages his game right. I honestly think I could break 90 somewhat easily. The par 3's are not going to be overly hard, no 300 yarders like at Oakmont last year. I see no reason why a 10 handicap person who plays as if they have a brain and plays away from trouble and such can't shoot below 100, not reason at all. (assuming this person is a legit 10, and not a 18 who post only his low scores because of ego)
--Steve--is 7600 really that hard?? I mean, if it was 18 straight holes that were 425 yards (that equals 7650) would it still be stupidly difficult?

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn - are you a plus handicap? I have been one for virtually 14 years with a low of +4 last year. Last week I played in the Carlton Woods Invitational - a tournament for Mid-Ams. We played two courses at 7,200 yards (400 less than Torrey Pines). There was virtually no rough on either course we played, the fairways were very wide imo, and the greens ran 13 the first day and 11-12 the next two days after some rain. These, courses have more water than Torrey so there was more of a chance for big numbers. While not everyone in the field was a plus handicap, these were all very good players - most guys had played in the Mid-Am and/or U.S. Am at least once and some were winners of the Texas state Am or Mid-Am. The average score for the three days was virtually 80.

The Azalea is played on a 6,600 yard course. I cannot stress enough how much an extra 1,000 yards will hurt Romo or any other golfer. One can easily recover from a missed drive on a 6,600 yard course. On a 7,600 yard course it is an automatic bogey and a very good chance at a double. I am on the short side off the tee (about 260-5 average) as virtually everyone I play with in top Mid-Am events drives it by me. I can hardly imagine 7,600 yards. I did play #2 from the Open tees 3 times last year. The course was soft, with no roll in the fairways and the greens were holding. Three par 4s every round I busted drives (for me) and every round I had three wood to the green. Now keep in mind the greens were soft so my long irons were holding and there was little rough. The greens were relatively slow which made chipping and putting easy. I shot 76, 75, 75. In U.S. Open conditions I don't see myself breaking 80 unless my short game is really, really on. All of that is to say that I think Romo has virtually no chance of breaking 80. 7,600 yards!!! Again, I say 7,600 yards!!! That is insane length for virtually anyone to play a golf course.

I think my lowest was +2. I have not been playing this year and when I have, it has not been pretty. But who cares about handicaps? They don't have anything to do with tournament golf. 7.600 yards is long and tough for you, not for everybody.

Are you seriously comparing the Carlton Invitational to The Azalea? Seriously? Have you played Torrey Pines? There is basically no chance to 3-putt out there. I didn't 3-putt once at Junior World and I am the worst putter in the world.

[Glenn Spencer]

Steve, you are now up there with Jamie, Sully and MWP as a top tourney player whose opinion I will seek to read whenever possible.

Glenn, I'm amazed you focus on the 69 and ignore the big numbers. I would think the biggest single difference between a scratch or even a plus golfer and the tour pros would be consistency. I'd guess a lot of scratch/plus golfers have had an occasional round in the 60s in tournaments, but those are probably not the rule.

On a one shot deal, I say there's little chance Romo breaks 85. Give him a few cracks at it and I'd say he might through a couple low 80s - or even better - out there, but for a single round, I'm betting 85 or over.

A few years ago Johnny Bench and Mike Schmidt thought they were going to waltz onto the Senior Tour. They learned quickly how good these guys are.

George,

Put yourself in Romo's shoes for a little bit. Dallas QB out there with all eyes on him, having to play golf with some of the best young players this country has and he comes up with a 69. Only 4 scores or so lower all week. A lot of scratch players shoot in the 60's at tournaments. They are called the State Amateur and qualifying events. Have you ever seen the scores that most athletes shoot when they are given exemptions like these? Jordan, Rypien, the list goes on and on. Shooting a 69 in your first attempt at a national tournament like The Azalea says an awful lot about what kind of player you are. Especially, when the course only gives up a few scores lower than that.

 I played with Johnny Bench in an Open qualifier once. Nice guy and all, but his hands might have been a bit too big for golf.

[Mike Mosely]

I think Romo breaks 100, but the GD winner doesn't.  That rough is tough stuff and those fairways are narrow.  plus all the pressure.

I just want to also go on record and say - who really cares what Randy Random from Muskogee would shoot at torrey tricked up for an open?  I'd rather see him tackle Oakmont or WF.

[George Pazin]

George,

Put yourself in Romo's shoes for a little bit.

I don't think I have that good of an imagination.

I'm not saying he can't do it (break 85), just that I find it very unlikely.

[Sean_A]

I don't know anything about the contest, but Romo will break 80. The guy is a pretty well-seasoned amateur golfer.  T34th at The Azalea ( I think) with a 69 and an 80 or something like that. He just needs to show up to break 100.

Break 80??? Glenn come on now.........There will be tour players can't break 80 and he's not nearly a tour player.

I will bet you a dollar that not one exempt tour player doesn't not break 80.

Glenn, there are exempt tour players who don't break 80 at regular tour events. Even though I have never seen Torrey, the USGA are going to try and save par and that will cause players to shoot in the 80's. I'll take your bet all day long. As for Romo, I have never seen him play nor do I know his handicap. However talented he is, which he obviously is, being an average handicap golfer is not nearly enough to get you round a US Open venue. He will not nearly break 80 but I think out of the 4 he could be the one to break 100. We will see.

Dean,

My bet is that there will not be an exempt player that posts two rounds in the 80's. That will not happen. It hardly ever does. You will lose that bet. Romo is a +1 at Dallas National or something like that. He could break 100 with his eyes closed. he is not average in any way. I don't even think he is a part of the bet. I think he is the celebrity guest or something like that. There is 0 chance that he will not break 100.

Glenn

I was considering taking your bet until you instituted the posting two scores rule.  I can see an  exempt player shooting in the 80s on Thursday and pull out with an "injury" - hence not breaking 80.

Ciao

[Glenn Spencer]

Sean,


You are correct. That would be a winner. I guess that should be included in the bet though, to be fair.

[Kalen Braley]

I think there are some other pieces of information that people are forgetting about.

1)  Has he even played Torrey Pines before?  I would think he is at a disadvantage to start with because I doubt he little if any experience with the course.  Thats got to be worth at least 3-4 strokes in local knowledge. How will he deal with the bumpy poa?

2)  His playing parters - He'll be playing with some decent names, and being the best player of the bunch I'm sure there will be some gamemanship going on with a bit of ego.  He'll likely be pulling out the big stick and going for the risky shots maybe more so than he should otherwise and bringing double or worse into play when he tries the miracle recovery or heroic approach.

3)  TV Audience - As one used to not playing his golf in front of the cameras and a gallery, I think it will affect him.  For evidence, he shot two 77s from the white tees at the celeb event in Tahoe from the white tees...not good.


All these things added up, and then when we add in what we know. Playing from US Open tips, US Open Rough, US Open Greens, etc, etc... thats good for at least 14-15 extra strokes.

So in the end, he's got a snowballs chance in hell of breaking 80...I'm just not seeing it.

I do think 85 is an interesting over/under and I'm taking the over on that one as well.

[Steve Kline]

Glenn - are you a plus handicap? I have been one for virtually 14 years with a low of +4 last year. Last week I played in the Carlton Woods Invitational - a tournament for Mid-Ams. We played two courses at 7,200 yards (400 less than Torrey Pines). There was virtually no rough on either course we played, the fairways were very wide imo, and the greens ran 13 the first day and 11-12 the next two days after some rain. These, courses have more water than Torrey so there was more of a chance for big numbers. While not everyone in the field was a plus handicap, these were all very good players - most guys had played in the Mid-Am and/or U.S. Am at least once and some were winners of the Texas state Am or Mid-Am. The average score for the three days was virtually 80.

The Azalea is played on a 6,600 yard course. I cannot stress enough how much an extra 1,000 yards will hurt Romo or any other golfer. One can easily recover from a missed drive on a 6,600 yard course. On a 7,600 yard course it is an automatic bogey and a very good chance at a double. I am on the short side off the tee (about 260-5 average) as virtually everyone I play with in top Mid-Am events drives it by me. I can hardly imagine 7,600 yards. I did play #2 from the Open tees 3 times last year. The course was soft, with no roll in the fairways and the greens were holding. Three par 4s every round I busted drives (for me) and every round I had three wood to the green. Now keep in mind the greens were soft so my long irons were holding and there was little rough. The greens were relatively slow which made chipping and putting easy. I shot 76, 75, 75. In U.S. Open conditions I don't see myself breaking 80 unless my short game is really, really on. All of that is to say that I think Romo has virtually no chance of breaking 80. 7,600 yards!!! Again, I say 7,600 yards!!! That is insane length for virtually anyone to play a golf course.

I think my lowest was +2. I have not been playing this year and when I have, it has not been pretty. But who cares about handicaps? They don't have anything to do with tournament golf. 7.600 yards is long and tough for you, not for everybody.

Are you seriously comparing the Carlton Invitational to The Azalea? Seriously? Have you played Torrey Pines? There is basically no chance to 3-putt out there. I didn't 3-putt once at Junior World and I am the worst putter in the world.

Am I comparing them? Not really. I have no idea how to compare them since I've never played the Azalea. I'm just saying he shot 69 on a 6,600 yard course. I've never seen the course, but anything that is 6,600 yards is a hell of a lot easier than something 7,600 yards. Plus, I'm sure the rough wasn't anything like Torrey's will be. I shot 70 in the Southeastern Am one year - doesn't mean I would have much chance of breaking 80 at Torrey under those conditions. So he shot 75 in Open qualifying this year. I shot 76 today in qualifying- big whoop. I'd played Torrey about 17 years ago in the Jr. World. It was a dump - other than that I don't remember much.

J. Ken - I think 7,600 is that hard. It just grinds on you. It's not fair to say it's 18 425 yards holes - because it's not. It's a bunch of really long par 4s

[Matt Varney]

Guys,

I am telling you I played Torrey South 2 years ago after all the changes had been put in place by Rees to add length.  To this day, I have never seen a golf course with such long par 4's holes.  I played them from the blue tees and they were some of the longest toughest par 4's because the wind was blowing that day and some rain moved in on the back 9.  I was thinking about them on the airplane flying back to Tennessee. 

Steve you are correct the pros will be tested and for many of them they will card 75 on opening day playing from 7,600 yards with 5" rough and greens rolling 13 stimp.  The west coast has been wanting a US Open like Bethpage.  When Torrey was awarded the 2008 Open they put in place a plan to put on an first class event the old clubhouse it still in place but, they have a really nice grill room near the putting green and a hotel that is world class overlooking the course.  This is not your average muni but, it is owned by the City of San Diego Parks.

If you have never played Torrey South you need to if just to experience the length of this monster.  If they only have 3" rough you are not getting it on the green on a poorly hit tee ball and if they grown the rought to 5" and any wind or rain enters the equation 75-77 is a good round.  At this length one bad shot = bogey or worse to recover and several bad shots puts you close to 80 real fast.

[Dean Stokes]

Glenn - are you a plus handicap? I have been one for virtually 14 years with a low of +4 last year. Last week I played in the Carlton Woods Invitational - a tournament for Mid-Ams. We played two courses at 7,200 yards (400 less than Torrey Pines). There was virtually no rough on either course we played, the fairways were very wide imo, and the greens ran 13 the first day and 11-12 the next two days after some rain. These, courses have more water than Torrey so there was more of a chance for big numbers. While not everyone in the field was a plus handicap, these were all very good players - most guys had played in the Mid-Am and/or U.S. Am at least once and some were winners of the Texas state Am or Mid-Am. The average score for the three days was virtually 80.

The Azalea is played on a 6,600 yard course. I cannot stress enough how much an extra 1,000 yards will hurt Romo or any other golfer. One can easily recover from a missed drive on a 6,600 yard course. On a 7,600 yard course it is an automatic bogey and a very good chance at a double. I am on the short side off the tee (about 260-5 average) as virtually everyone I play with in top Mid-Am events drives it by me. I can hardly imagine 7,600 yards. I did play #2 from the Open tees 3 times last year. The course was soft, with no roll in the fairways and the greens were holding. Three par 4s every round I busted drives (for me) and every round I had three wood to the green. Now keep in mind the greens were soft so my long irons were holding and there was little rough. The greens were relatively slow which made chipping and putting easy. I shot 76, 75, 75. In U.S. Open conditions I don't see myself breaking 80 unless my short game is really, really on. All of that is to say that I think Romo has virtually no chance of breaking 80. 7,600 yards!!! Again, I say 7,600 yards!!! That is insane length for virtually anyone to play a golf course.

Nicely put Steve. Romo by his own admittance on TV last week said he is a short hitter.
When he looks out at the 23 yard wide fairways that look like bowling alleys, misses one early and takes double, any final score is possible. Most golfers are used to looking at 40,50 and 60 yard wide fairways. A US Open set up takes a lot of game and a helluva lot of tournament experience to navigate.

[Glenn Spencer]

I give in. Romo is going to shoot a thousand. Nobody can handle pressure besides Tour professionals and Redstone is an harder golf course than Merion. 7,600 yards is so long that nobody can play it except Tour professionals. Another one, even though only 10 scores were shot in the 60's at the freaking Azalea, it wasn't hard because the course was only 6,600 yards.

[Jim Nugent]

I give in. Romo is going to shoot a thousand. Nobody can handle pressure besides Tour professionals and Redstone is an harder golf course than Merion. 7,600 yards is so long that nobody can play it except Tour professionals. Another one, even though only 10 scores were shot in the 60's at the freaking Azalea, it wasn't hard because the course was only 6,600 yards.

Glad you finally saw the light.   

Who says no one on GCA ever changes their mind? 

[Matt Varney]

Torrey will not be Oakmont but, it will solidly defend par as a great score. I will say it one last time my prediction is 4-7 under wins.  If they get to double digits under par I doubt the course will host another major.

The USGA likes it tough and fair if you hit the fairway you have 4-7 iron into the greens that can hold your shots you miss the fairway and you better hit a good recovery shot close and make a putt to save par.  Birdies can be made on this course its just going to be different from the Buick for the US Open.

 

[Kalen Braley]

I give in. Romo is going to shoot a thousand. Nobody can handle pressure besides Tour professionals and Redstone is an harder golf course than Merion. 7,600 yards is so long that nobody can play it except Tour professionals. Another one, even though only 10 scores were shot in the 60's at the freaking Azalea, it wasn't hard because the course was only 6,600 yards.

Glad you finally saw the light.   

Who says no one on GCA ever changes their mind? 

I was just thinking the same thing Jim.  Good to see that conversions can actually happen on GCA.com. 

Glenn,

Its a pleasure to have you aboard, and we're glad to add you to the team.    

[Rick Sides]

I am a decent golfer, consistently shoot in the 80's from around 6,600 yards.  Last summer I ventured up to Bethpage to play.  I was paired with 3 other guys who all wanted to play from the tips, so I said what the hell, I will try it.  It was about 7,300 yards.  I will tell you I had my best round of my life that day and still shot 96. Now Bethpage is hard, but it was not in US Open conditions.  Imagine adding another 300 yards, make the fairways more constricted, thicken the rough and speed up the greens.  For most average golfers like myself playing at Bethpage that day, you are constently hitting driver then 3 wood or hybrid except on the par 3's.  Even the par 4's feel like par 5's  from 7,000+ yards.  So the average player shooting from the tips at Torrey, even without tournament conditions, has slim to no chance of breaking 100.

[Peter Pallotta]

Reporter: Are you trying to embarrass the 10 handicap golfer?

USGA Official: No, we're trying to identify them.