[David Stamm]

I read the article done by Whitten in this month's GD on Jones last night. I found this quote to be ridiculous:


"I consider Torrey Pines (and Congressional) to be Rees Jones designs. I changed the configuration of holes, added new bunkers, new greens, new everything. So I'd say we'll have two Rees Jones designs hosting U.S. Opens."


The routing is the same. The 3rd and 14th (and the 4th slightly) greens were shifted closer to the canyons. Does this, along with what he mentions above stricken Bell jr from the record? Isn't it generally believed by most that the routing is the most important element in a design? I found this statement laughable and obviously self serving. Should AWT be pushed aside because he worked on Bethpage? Or any course that the "Open Doctor" has worked on? Or is this something he can get away with because Bell jr is no AWT?


BTW, I love his reasoning on why visual deception doesn't work.

[Michael Dugger]

It's just politics and lip service, David.

Schwag, comes to mind.  I don't think I'll even bother watching the U.S. Open this year I am so uninterested in Torrey Pines.

[Jay Flemma]

David I absolutely agree.  I saw rees say exactly the same thing in person and was really turned off my it.  I think it's arrogant and disrespectful.

[John Kirk]

Regardless of that quote, I enjoyed the article a great deal, and thought Ron Whitten did a fine job giving the reader an inside look at Rees Jones.  I appreciate his attempt to define Rees's architectural philosophy, and emphasize his competitive zeal.

I liked it a lot.

[David Stamm]

John, I liked the article as well. It confirmed alot of things I already suspected. The article was good, but I got the sense RW was holding back on how he felt about some of what Rees has done and said.

[Jay Flemma]

Ron's work is always excellent.  You're right about that John.  But Rees is out of line here.  On his website he lists his work at Pinehurst Number 2 as a "redesign" and that's just hubris.

[Kyle Henderson]

Poppy Ridge, a Rees Jones design in Livermore, CA. was among the first course I ever played, and I still think it is a fine example of Rees at his best. He skillfully routed 3 separate nine-hole sequences that are equitable in challenge and quality, and all of them end up back at the club house. Given the steep nature of the property, the course isn't very walker-friendly, but overall I had a fairly high opinion of his work at first.

My subsequent exposures (redesign at the Duke course, walking a couple of holes at Pinehurst #7) have greatly tempered that affection, and I don't personally agree with many of the principles he puts forth in Whitten's article. But, of course, I'm all for variety. If others like his work and they agree to pay his fees, more power to him.

[Michael Dugger]

Regardless of that quote, I enjoyed the article a great deal, and thought Ron Whitten did a fine job giving the reader an inside look at Rees Jones.  I appreciate his attempt to define Rees's architectural philosophy, and emphasize his competitive zeal.

I liked it a lot.

And what is that philosophy? 

Sounds to me like "hit it down the middle or else"

brilliant!

[Andy Troeger]

John, I liked the article as well. It confirmed alot of things I already suspected. The article was good, but I got the sense RW was holding back on how he felt about some of what Rees has done and said.

I liked the article and thought RW did a nice job with it. Taking kind of the opposite view, I liked how you could pretty easily guess what he thought about Rees' views without him actually spelling it out. I have heard RW speak though, so that might allow me to cheat a bit 

[Dan Herrmann]

Ask Rees' brother what he thinks of the quote

[Ian Andrew]

how do you delete a post?

[Philippe Binette]

I worked at Barnbougle Dunes for a couple of months, so I consider myself the architect of the 39th ranked golf course in the world.... HA HA HA

GO REES GO

[A.G._Crockett]

Poppy Ridge, a Rees Jones design in Livermore, CA. was among the first course I ever played, and I still think it is a fine example of Rees at his best. He skillfully routed 3 separate nine-hole sequences that are equitable in challenge and quality, and all of them end up back at the club house. Given the steep nature of the property, the course isn't very walker-friendly, but overall I had a fairly high opinion of his work at first.

My subsequent exposures (redesign at the Duke course, walking a couple of holes at Pinehurst #7) have greatly tempered that affection, and I don't personally agree with many of the principles he puts forth in Whitten's article. But, of course, I'm all for variety. If others like his work and they agree to pay his fees, more power to him.

Kyle,
I'm no great fan of Rees Jones, but I will say that Duke is a LOT better now than it was before his work there.  The original design by his father was one of the least enjoyable golf courses I've ever set foot on.  In general, I would value his renovation work more highly than his originals, but that's just me.

[Steve Hyden]

To quote a cliche, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  Didn't RTJ, Sr. hail Ballybunion New as the greatest links course in the world, or something like that?

[Kyle Henderson]

Poppy Ridge, a Rees Jones design in Livermore, CA. was among the first course I ever played, and I still think it is a fine example of Rees at his best. He skillfully routed 3 separate nine-hole sequences that are equitable in challenge and quality, and all of them end up back at the club house. Given the steep nature of the property, the course isn't very walker-friendly, but overall I had a fairly high opinion of his work at first.

My subsequent exposures (redesign at the Duke course, walking a couple of holes at Pinehurst #7) have greatly tempered that affection, and I don't personally agree with many of the principles he puts forth in Whitten's article. But, of course, I'm all for variety. If others like his work and they agree to pay his fees, more power to him.

Kyle,
I'm no great fan of Rees Jones, but I will say that Duke is a LOT better now than it was before his work there.  The original design by his father was one of the least enjoyable golf courses I've ever set foot on.  In general, I would value his renovation work more highly than his originals, but that's just me.

Well, that is something, I suppose. There were some features I liked at that course, but few memorable holes were produced on what I consider to be a pretty decent site (do the experts agree?). But, I certainly understand that RTJs original routing is probably more to blame.

[BCrosby]

It was a bit of a hatchet job, no? Against all odds, I started to feel some sympathy for the victim, but soon regained my composure.

The larger point is that we need a better writing on golf architecture issues in the world's biggest golf magazine. More substance would be a good place to start. The Rees piece was - I admit - fascinating, but in the end had the feel of something from People Magazine.

There was a time back when people wrote articles on gca where actual design issues were discussed, they were often accompanied by drawings to illustrate design issues. It was all very informative, spurred a lot of debate on the merits, lots of good stuff. It can be a shock looking back on those articles, many from the 1950's and earlier.

Substantive coverage of gca is doable. It has been done. I hope the major golf periodicals figure that out someday. It would be good for everyone.

Bob

[John Kirk]

Michael,

There were a few architecture issues covered.  Rees Jones believes the golfer should be able to visually assess the challenges from the tee.  He likes to place bunkers that challenge both the shortest and longest pro players, sometimes combining those challenges into a single, long sand hazard.

My sense was Ron Whitten and Rees Jones are friends, but Ron doesn't agree with everything Rees does.  Remember Ron's philosophy at Erin Hills was strictly minimalist, urging his partners to leave the land as undisturbed as possible.  I felt he handled the differences artfully, without insulting the subject.

I'm in a very charitable mood this afternoon.  I had a nice day.  So today there's good golf and there's better golf.  Seems to me Rees Jones builds pretty good golf courses, and successfully modifies older courses to challenge the world's best.

Bob's critique is justified, but I liked the article.  At least it gave me something to gnaw on.

JK

P.S.  Rees has the charmed golf life, doesn't he?  If I were Rees, I'd never build another course and just play golf.

[Allan Long]

David,

I've stated on other threads along the same line that it is ludicrous to take Billy Bell, Jr., out of the equation. Yes, Rees made some alterations to the course, but he did the same at Bethpage and I don't think anyone would take Tillie's name off that course. Maybe it runs in the family. After all, Oakland Hills is a RTJ, Sr., design right.

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