The Peper Take ...

[Matt_Ward]

Enjoyed reviewing a back issue of Links (March 2006) in which former Golf Mag editor George Peper made the following comments on the most overrated courses in the world ...

The K Club ... Dublin meets Doral !

Seminole GC ... Elite membership, world class locker-room, typical Florida golf course.

Muirfield GC ... A fine straightforward test of championship golf - and utterly charmless

Baltusrol GC ... America's Muirfield.

Pinehurst #2 ... Sorry, those greens are borderline Goof golf.

Some of his most unheralded courses in the UK and Ireland ...

Carne Golf Links ... There's no more exhilarating finish in golf.

Royal Aberdeen ... The front nine is as good as links golf gets.

The Island GC (ireland) ... Rugged beauty in serene isolation by the Irish Sea.

Some generalized USA course comments will follow as I make my mad dash to a few mtgs this morning ...

[Dan Herrmann]

I've been to the K Club, and agree.  A Florida-style Palmer course 25 minutes west of Dublin.  What a waste.

[BVince]

I am surprised to see both Seminole and Pinehurst #2.  I hear nothing but great things about both of those courses although I haven't had the opportunity to play either.  Maybe Peper wasn't a Donald Ross fan.

[Matt_Ward]

Couple of other Peper takes ...

* The Links of ND has more scenic value -- overlooking Lake Sakakawea -- than Sand Hills.

* Black Mesa -- one of the most spectacular courses anywhere, with holes climbing, driving and weaving through massive sandstone formatios. With no sign of civilization other than the clubhouse, Black Mesa can look like the moon, but the golf is heavenly.

* Wolf Creek -- Set high above the desert floor in a theater of redrock canyons, teeming waterfalls (Matt's comments - though I'm not a fan of such things) and glistening creeks, it is breathtaking in every sense. But bring your A game - from the back tees the Slope Rating is 154, the 3rd highest in the country.

* In Florida - one of the most overrated courses in the world - Seminole - is just minutes from one of the most underrated - Pine Tree. A test of strategy and ball control that you appreciate more every time you play it. Sam Snead called it "the best course in the South" and ben Hogan wrote in the guest book, "The best course I've ever seen."

* Kingsley Club -- only four years old, but seems destined to move up the charts.

* Wannamoisett - terrific test of driving with artful bunkering and 18 engaging green complexes - but with a par of 69.

Interesting take on both the classic and modern courses ...

[mike_malone]

 I agree that #18 at Carne is fantastic, but I felt slightly manipulated throughout the rest of the round. It feels like it wants to impress the American golfer by its huge dunes and interesting views without having too much quirk. I thought the greens were particularly featureless. Maybe on my second try this June I will see things differently.

[Dan Herrmann]

Mayday - you're a brave American traveling to the land of the Euro this summer

[mike_malone]

 Dan,

   I don't budget for golf.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Or Buda.

[John Moore II]

Are we really taking these rankings seriously for the most part? Seminole and Pinehurst the most overrated courses in the world? There are probably 10 courses within 10 miles of #2 that are more overrated.

[BVince]

JKM,

Which courses?  I hate to get off the original subject, but I am curious to hear your thoughts.

[John Moore II]

Byron--to start off, my overrated/underrated assessments are based mostly on the Golf Digest star and Best in State rankings, for whatever stock you want to put in them...
Legacy--Rated 4 1/2 stars. No way, course is boring, has very little character, and poorly conditioned. 3 1/2 at best.
Mid Pines--4 1/2 stars, 25th best in state. maybe I can agree with that, but no way is Mid Pines better than Tobacco Road, TR is not top 25 (according to GD), therefore IMHO, Mid Pines is not either.
The Pit--4 stars, former top 15 in state. Poor conditions, playing characteristics bordering on goofy. 3 stars, top 50 at best.
Hyland Hills--4 stars, last time I played, had very poor conditions, very little variety or aesthetics. 3 stars at best.
---I think there are others slighty overrated, but those are the only ones that I feel are grossly overrated. In general, I feel that most clubs in the Pinehurst area are slightly pumped up more so than they deserve, while very few are underrated. Southern Pines CC is highly underrated, I feel.

[BVince]

JKM, you are quickly becoming one of my favorite guys on this site...

[John Moore II]

WOW, I've been 'favorited.' Bryon, do tell why you say that?

[BVince]

JKM,

Would you consider Pinehurst #2 the best course in the state of NC and deserving of its national ranking?  I have not played it and from what I hear/seen, most of the design credit is given for the greensites and chipping areas.  How are the strategic options of the tee?  Is it mostly about placing the ball in the right position to create the best angle into the green?

I guess, from my limited experience and conversation with others, I do not understand Peper's placement into the over-rated category.

[John Moore II]

Pinehurst is rated where it is because it requires the player to hit good quality shots into the greens, anything less than good will not stay on the green. I cannot comment on whether or not it really deserves to be ranked where it is, I have played no other top 100 courses. I can't see why Peper said what he did, its one of the few courses in the general Sandhills area that I feel is deserving of its rating and acclaim. Most others down here (other than Pine Needles and Forest Creek) are either pumped up to high or put down as poor.