[David Stamm]

I wanted to get others takes on this Fri venue for the KP. DM is the red headed step child of the PB Co.'s line up of courses and I was pleasantly surprised. I enjoyed it and would play it again. With the Duke's Card this place is a bargain. It's an enjoyable walk and well conditioned. What say you?

[Kalen Braley]

I wanted to get others takes on this Fri venue for the KP. DM is the red headed step child of the PB Co.'s line up of courses and I was pleasantly surprised. I enjoyed it and would play it again. With the Duke's Card this place is a bargain. It's an enjoyable walk and well conditioned. What say you?

David,

I'm right there with you and was more than pleasantly surprised at the treat that is ODM.  Some really interesting holes were worked in over a fairly featureless piece of property that made for some really good golf.

Without wanting to start any skimershises, I think I preferred it Poppy Hills which often gets tagged with same such red-headed step child status.

[Tom Huckaby]

David:

The only issue at ODM is the price.

At $42, it is all those things.

But make it $125 and what say you?

TH

[David Stamm]

I think $80 is the ceiling. In any case, I still liked the course. In Monterey, everything is more.

[Tom Huckaby]

I think $80 is the ceiling. In any case, I still liked the course. In Monterey, everything is more.

Agreed.

Take price out of the equation and well... I too like ODM - it's a very fun course, tranquil, peaceful.  Not sure I prefer it to Poppy Hills, but still, I like it.

TH

[Adam Clayman]

Ol' D has a couple of solid golf holes. It's ebb and flow have been tweaked over the many years of it's contiguous operation. The 7th (#1 handcp) is a fine example. Even with it's slightly center line tree. The green complex with it's sections makes for a challenge on every swing.
The 17th's fairway has been tweaked within the last 10 years, jogging it out to the left when it use to run closer to the cart path, right. It's green has a front pin that most would cry "unfair". I could never utter such cries since I made my second putt (to qualify for the international caddy cup) after watching the prior three groups five putt from 10 feet below the hole.

Solid par 3's and the three shotters all keep one's interest.
 

[David Stamm]

I think $80 is the ceiling. In any case, I still liked the course. In Monterey, everything is more.

Agreed.

Take price out of the equation and well... I too like ODM - it's a very fun course, tranquil, peaceful.  Not sure I prefer it to Poppy Hills, but still, I like it.

TH

That would be an interesting comparison. I've played Poppy several times. I think I would prefer ODM slightly over PH, but maybe I would feel differently if asked the same question tomorrow. Vastly different styled courses, as you know. PH is definitely more difficult.

[Tim Leahy]

Until I bought a Duke's card several years ago, mostly for the discounts at
Spyglass and Spanish Bay, I had only played Del Monte once or twice and had unfairly compared it to the other more spectacular courses in the area. But after playing the course four or five times and with friends at the card price I actually came to appreciate it more. There actually is an ocean view from the course that I had not noticed and it has a country club feel to it. I still would rather play Poppy or Fort Ord, although I haven't played the redesign, but would still play Del Monte on any trip to Monterey.
Also for those that are anti-Duke's, Tom, or don't plan on playing any other courses, Del Monte puts out coupons in the local papers and NoCal golf magazines pretty regularly, so you can usually find a discount.
What did the architect junkies think of the church pews on no. 10?

[Tom Huckaby]

Tim - I don't doubt that discounts can be found.  And I have played ODM many times.  My question was more of a theoretical nature for David.

And all in my group thought the church pews were pretty neat, I think... somewhat out of play, not as omnipresent as those at Oakmont, but still a neat feature.

TH

[David Stamm]

And all in my group thought the church pews were pretty neat, I think... somewhat out of play, not as omnipresent as those at Oakmont, but still a neat feature.

TH

I didn't have a problem with them. They're no Oakmont, but I thought it was neat. It was a noble attempt to add something memorable to a fairly flat site.

[BVince]

David, can you post some pictures of the course?

[David Stamm]

Bryon, I'm ashamed to say that I left my camera in the hotel room by accident on Friday. 

[Lou_Duran]

Great course to start the trip with.  Easy to walk; four hour round.  In my "good Lou" days, shooting over par would have been disappointing.  My 85 after not having played for over three months was as bad as I thought I could do, but little did I know what awaited me on the following days.

Some of the trees are in awkward places (e.g. 18), but it is a short course.  I thought the par 3s are gamy, and some of the greens required close attention.  It lacks a couple of good long par 4s.

All in all, it is a course I would play again for that price.  Probably a very nice place to have breakfast prior to playing the one round with the wife during a short getaway to the Peninsula.  $80 is probably a good price ceiling. 

[Kalen Braley]

I'd agree with the sentiment expressed above...it really felt like it had some charm to it.

[Tom Huckaby]

Well, I like the course too, I just have zero clue what Shivas means, having never been on a golf course that felt like anything else.

Do you mean tree-lined and parkland with houses only on the periphery?  Thus making you feel comfortable as I'm guessing most of the courses you grew up on were like this?

If not, what do you mean?

[Tom Huckaby]

I mean that it just didn't feel like a tract of land that somebody decided would be a good thing to throw a golf course on to merely to generate profits.  So many courses you play just have that cash-register feel to them.  ODM felt honest. 

OK.
But isn't that just a difference between most old courses and most new courses?  The new courses not having the cash-register feel being the great ones... but how many old courses have that feel?

[Kalen Braley]

I mean that it just didn't feel like a tract of land that somebody decided would be a good thing to throw a golf course on to merely to generate profits.  So many courses you play just have that cash-register feel to them.  ODM felt honest. 

OK.
But isn't that just a difference between most old courses and most new courses?  The new courses not having the cash-register feel being the great ones... but how many old courses have that feel?

I'm sure an arguement for Pebble Beach can be made for an old course having a cash resgister feel.   

[Tom Huckaby]

Pebble.  Bethpage.  Pinehurst.  For starters.  All massive operations where the simple act of playing golf takes a back seat to ringing the register.

OK fine, those are old course exceptions.

But I still think the general rule holds.

But how far do you take this, anyway?  Is Old Del Monte a better golf course than any of those three?

I assume you don't go that far and it's just a neat starting point (when positive) or bad starting point (when negative) and that after this other issues can carry the day.

Correct?

[Jim Briggs]

Pebble.  Bethpage.  Pinehurst.  For starters.  All massive operations where the simple act of playing golf takes a back seat to ringing the register.

Not sure I would lump Bethpage into the same category.  If your referring to the amount of play that the five courses see a year (approx. 300,000 rounds), ok, but Black has a $60 weekend rate for residents, which I think is quite the value.

Jim
  

[David Stamm]

yup. 

I just like the golf to be front and center - and simple. 

Oh, here's another one -- probably the king of the Cash Register Courses:

Dubsdread.

I'm not trying to speak for David. He's perfectly capable of stating his position. But I think I know what he's trying to say. Pasa has that "pure golf" feel that he's describing (it does at least to me) and I think that contributes to the overall perception. I love Pebble and always will, but I remember saying to John Mayhugh after eating at the Tap Room that the all the boutique shops and the feel around the putting green reminded me of Main Street at Disneyland where the cash registers are cocked and at the ready. This actually takes away from the experience IMHO. When you go to Spyglass, it's the opposite. Simple proshop and not alot of clutter.

[Tom Huckaby]

yup. 

I just like the golf to be front and center - and simple. 

Oh, here's another one -- probably the king of the Cash Register Courses:

Dubsdread.

Ask yourself a question when you play a public course: if you get done, and there's nobody around and you ask "hey, we just finished but there's still a little light left...can we go play a couple more holes?"   


Who says "sure, the tee's open" and who says "oh, sorry, that's against the rules"?

Now, for all I know, ODM says no, but it doesn't feel that way...

I'd be shocked if ODM didn't say no.  My friend, remember it's owner.  Pasa also.  They're not open to the public to give them freebies.

But I get what you're saying.

I just also believe these courses are sadly the exception and not the rule.

Interesting way to look at things, anyway....

David:  you think Pasa has a pure golf feel?  After the price you paid? 

Interesting.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

I don't think anyone will confuse Pebble for whats it become as a wallet thinning, tourist attraction.

As for Pasa, I agree, its a fantastic course, but not high on the value side.  Although Tom its a lot easier to think such when the green fees are paid a few months in advance in a couple of installments.   

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen:  fully agreed there.

I just find it odd to list a course that costs $200+ in this shivasian category.... but I think I get what he's driving at.

[David Stamm]

yup. 

I just like the golf to be front and center - and simple. 

Oh, here's another one -- probably the king of the Cash Register Courses:

Dubsdread.

Ask yourself a question when you play a public course: if you get done, and there's nobody around and you ask "hey, we just finished but there's still a little light left...can we go play a couple more holes?"   


Who says "sure, the tee's open" and who says "oh, sorry, that's against the rules"?

Now, for all I know, ODM says no, but it doesn't feel that way...

 
David:  you think Pasa has a pure golf feel?  After the price you paid? 

Interesting.

TH

Remember, it's only been in the last few years that Pasa has started entering the very expensive realm. TOC has become expensive. Does that take away the feel? The price influences ones perception to be sure, but I don't get the same vibes at PB as I do at Pasa in this regard. Listen, I love them both. Just for different reasons, that's all. I do think a course can be expensive and still pull off the "pure golf" feel that we are discussing. I'm not saying I agree with David, I just think I know where he's coming from.

[Tom Huckaby]

shivas:

I love Pasa and most everything about it, so I shall cease the conversation using it as an example.  But let's say I disagree on this issue about this course.

I get you otherwise, though.

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