Walk mower vs. Riding mower

[Jim Johnson]

An article in today's local paper talks about the newest golf course in the area, about 6 years old, and describes irrigation and mowing practices as the course moves into the spring months.

Quote: "At "X" course, bent grass greens are maintained at a height of one-eighth of an inch and cut daily with 22 inch John Deere push mowers.

Tests have shown greens cut with push mowers give about eight feet more roll on the ball in comparison to greens cut with a riding mower".

 

I always thought that the advantage of using walk mowers is that they give a better result than riding mowers, a smoother cut, less "damage" in turning the mower, etc...

More roll on the ball? 8 feet?

Comments?
JJ

[Mark_Fine]

JJ,
It is a typo.  They do not give eight feet more of roll.  If greens are cut at one-eight inch, they are cut at one-eight inch.  However, the rollers, etc. on the mowers can vary and impact green speed to some extent but not eight feet. 

[Matt Kardash]

Yeah, it supposedly has more to do with damage to the course. I worked 3 years on the maintenance staff of an upscale public course in montreal. The last year i was there we didnt have enough employees to be able to cut the green with walk-behinds. We got the greens to the same height(0.095 thousands of an inch!!), they were the same speed, and the course was in just as good shape. As far as i can tell, walk behinds are just for show, in that they make nice small lines....however, almost no golfers even notice mowing lines anyways.

[John Moore II]

Matt-perhaps I am wrong, but I have been told that using walk behind mowers causes less compaction in the soil than a riding triplex does. So that is (if correct) a very good reason to use a walking mower if possible.

[Matt Kardash]

J, you aren't wrong!

[Mike_Young]

The same height of cut will vary with manufacturers.  .125 on a Jake will be different than .125 on a toro or a Deere....all due to bedknife attitude.....it used to be the manufacturers would use a prism to compare height of cut.
As for walking vs riding....I would imagine the coming years will see more riding with a walking clean up cut.  The most cpmpaction on a green is the ball of the human foot but the psi between most walkers and is about the same.  It just seems most like the look of the walker or either some greens have "corners etc that make walking easier.

[Jim Johnson]

The article went on to say...

"The flatness and green speed is kept up to par with top dressing. Biweekly, the entire green is covered with one-eighth of an inch of sand topdressing. Once it dries, a dragmat is used to drag all of the sand into the surface of the green. The idea is that the sand topdressing will level out any low imperfections of the green and smooth the surface. It also helps the grass stand up straight".

Is this the "usual" standard for topdressing? "Biweekly"?

JJ

[Craig Sweet]

I don't know as if there's a "standard"....we verticut the greens every two weeks and top dress...but at another course they might do it monthly, or a couple of times during the season....

[Jim Johnson]

Craig, I'm not sure what kind of bentgrass those greens are. The course is about 6 or 7 years old now.

If a course had the A-1 or A-4 bent, would they need topdressing that often?

JJ

[Jon Wiggett]

This is a discusion that often occurs on greenkeeper sites. It usually developes into a slanging match between two camps of pro walk behaind and pro ride on. It depends on your point of view but looking at it you can reduce it down to these points.

Walk behind strengths

1. Despite the 'balls of your feet compaction argument' the overall compaction impact of walk behind is considerably less.
2. The green receives a rolling each time it is mown and is smoother to putt.
3. The operater receives a much better idea of the condition of the green.
4. There is far less wear and tear on the green and the surounds.
5. They cost less to buy, are easier to maintain, use less fuel, have lower emmissions and have a much longer life.

Walk behind weaknesses

1. It take much longer to cut (x3)
2. Not practical to use for other jobs (verticut, etc.)

Ride on mower strengths

1. They take less time to complete the cut meaning more time for other things.
2. They are multi functional.

Ride on weeknesses

1. They create far more compaction especially on the fringes. The famous triplex ring doen't just come from the clean up lap but also from the act of lift the cutting units which create excessive downward force on the tyres.
2. They are more expensive to buy and maintain
3. They have a shorter working life.
4. They are more work to maintain
5. Operator has no real contact with the green

The finish is an 'eye of the beholder' thing. As you may notice walk behinds get the thumbs up from me but I do see the need for ride ons where there is a small staff and the time budget is an issue.

[Grant Saunders]

Jon

I tend to agree mostly with the points you make.

One of the downsides to the walk mowing operation is the need for a transport vehicle and trailer to move around site. Also, each mower needs an operator so if you have 4 mowers you need 4 operators and a minimum of 2 transport vehicles. Thus the cost is not substantially lower as some people try to make out.

As to the quality of cut, I feel that a competent person setting up the mower should lead to no discernible difference. Most quality of cut issues with triplex mowers stem from inconsistent setting amongst the 3 units.

On the issue of compaction with ride on machines, most mowers operate at around 10 psi or less ground pressure. A human male of medium build has a footprint of 8 psi. I have seen some pretty heavy footed operators leave scuff marks and prints on greens.

For me, the two biggest upsides to walk mowing are:
- The ability to turn the mower with less room therefore enabling the placement of bunkers, mounds, undulations etc closer to the putting surface
- the complete lack of hydraulic oil removing the possibility of oil leaks

[Anthony_Nysse]

JJohnson,
  We have A-4 and topdress EVERY Monday from March -November, even in the summer. We usually use flymows to work the sand in and walkmow with Toro Flex 21s right after. After 1 more day of mowing with the Flexes, we will go back to the Toro 1000. (Fixed head) I'm a firm beleive if a budget allow, walkmower in the only way to go-no hydrolics, 1 reel=1 height of cut.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Jim Johnson]

Thanks guys.

Tony, re: your last line..."1 reel = 1 height of cut"...
If as Grant mentions, a course has 4 walk mowers, is it difficult to get all 4 mowers set the same way, so that all 4 deliver the exact same height of cut?

JJ

[Kyle Harris]

Turning a triplex on 2 foot collar with a bunker 6 inches away from the edge is another reason they may not be used.

The triplex is probably the main cause for the shrinkage of twenties era greens. Old courses had the hazards integrated with the green more aggressively and turning became a problem.

[Jeff_Brauer]

If I figure that greens will be mowed with triplex, I put bunkers about 6' from the green. I also limit green width to a minimum of 50' with 55' preferred because I see the damage done on the edges when a triplex tries to turn any steeper than that, esp. if in conjunction with a small rise.  It seems their weight, in combination with any other stress factor, like traffic, poor irrigation coverage, etc. leads to problems.

I recall losing a job once by recommending that we place bunkers 6' from the green edge to accomodate tri-plex "just in case" future conditions (like now) demanded it.  A pro designer said by all means, put the bunkers within a few feet of the greens to prevent ever using tri-plex.  They bought the high end argument. I wonder if they have second thoughts now.  I know I do in making any blanket recommendations!

[Anthony_Nysse]

JJohnson,
  just to clarify, if a walk mower is a little off, meaning maybe a little lower or higher, it wont show up as the whole green will be mowed a little lower or higher. If 1 triplex reel is off, there will be a pattern throughout the green.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Jim Johnson]

Sorry Tony, I understand what you're saying, I guess I should have re-worded it...

My concern was if there are, say, 4 walk mowers being used on the course, and if each has settings slightly different from one another, each green mowed would be at a slightly different height from the others, thus resulting in different green speeds throughout the course.

Mind you, the difference would be so negligible, the average joe wouldn't be able to tell anyway, I suppose. 

JJ

[Anthony_Nysse]

JJohnson,
  You are correct. There is apossibility that each of the 4 mowers could be slightly off in height. As you stated, the difference wouldnt be noticeable, nor would the speed of the green. A majority of golfers cannot notice the difference in green speed up to 6".

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Kyle Harris]

JJohnson,
  You are correct. There is apossibility that each of the 4 mowers could be slightly off in height. As you stated, the difference wouldnt be noticeable, nor would the speed of the green. A majority of golfers cannot notice the difference in green speed up to 6".

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

That would be one of about a thousand other factors. Greens will vary in speed for many other reasons other than and before slight variance in the height settings. When you're talking about one area of a 100+ acre golf course and another maybe a mile away, being off by a thousandth isn't an acute issue.

[Jim Sweeney]

A real problem I have seen with riders is tire tracks produced by the cleanup lap. They might be partially hidden beacause the grass grows up in them. But I have learned to land pitch and chip shots 6-9 feet onto rider mown greans to avoid bad bounces when a shot lands in a track. It seems, though, that tire tracks are less a problem on sand based greens.

How do you superintendents combat this problem?

[Kyle Harris]

A real problem I have seen with riders is tire tracks produced by the cleanup lap. They might be partially hidden beacause the grass grows up in them. But I have learned to land pitch and chip shots 6-9 feet onto rider mown greans to avoid bad bounces when a shot lands in a track. It seems, though, that tire tracks are less a problem on sand based greens.

How do you superintendents combat this problem?

Don't cut the band every day. Most courses I've seen only do the clean up pass 2-3 times a week.

[Jim Sweeney]

Kyle:

Once the tracks are established, what can be done to correct the problem?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Kyle:

Once the tracks are established, what can be done to correct the problem?

Aerify and topdress and repeat....and repeat....and repeat....and, well, you get the picture. A good idea for courses that triplex to avoid this is to use a walk mower for their cleanup pass. John deere makes a triplex where the reels are offset, so the wheels of the machine track over a different area in a clockwise fashion than it does in a counter clockwise fashion.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle:

Once the tracks are established, what can be done to correct the problem?

Aerify and topdress and repeat....and repeat....and repeat....and, well, you get the picture. A good idea for courses that triplex to avoid this is to use a walk mower for their cleanup pass. John deere makes a triplex where the reels are offset, so the wheels of the machine track over a different area in a clockwise fashion than it does in a counter clockwise fashion.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

Tony pretty well said it. Rolling the green helps if you have the correct type of roller.

Train operators to be both reeled and not just right or left reeled.

[JohnH]

I would only like to add that we get away with clean up passes with a triplex by adjusting the distance from the edge that is mowed.  All the way to the edge one day, two feet out the next, and four feet out the third day, then repeat.  Keeps the tires from tracking over the same path every day.  There has never been a day that a clean up pass is not made, although the days where we stay four feet away from the collar seems like a missed clean up pass.

I've been subjected to both practices (walk and ride), and found that you better have a great mechanic who's well versed in blade adjustment if you are going to walk mow your course.  If one mower is off or not cutting well, playing conditions suffer -- but that holds true for triplex mowing also.  There's nothing I can't stand more than one mower that's off on a triplex that leaves those wonderful lines on the green.