Is Sand Hills the greatest course in the US?

[Alex_Wyatt]

 Great place,Gene,  but not as many options into the greens as many many uk/ireland links. Perhaps we should have an unoffical GCA rule that members not defend their own courses.  Too sensitive

[Mike_Cirba]

Alex,

Did you see my question above?

Thanks.

[Gene Greco]

Alex:

    I believe the question asks "in the US?"

And you believe it not to be. Pure and simple.

I believe it to be at the top, or very near, and have used the question you posed, 'Wouldn't one of your criteria for greatness be a course which offers choices rather than dictate shot selection?' to assert a point.

You believe the course not to offer these choices.

I simply believe you are in error.

[THuckaby2]

Gene:

Well said.  Just note that while Mike does pose the question as "best in the US", I personally take it further and am not ashamed to say I believe it's the best on the planet.

I don't see a lack of options into greens such that it becomes automatically inferior to any links in the UK or Ireland.   In any case, I'd ask Alex this:  why is such the ONLY criterion for greatness?

TH

[Paul Richards]

>Is Sand Hills the greatest course in the US?


No.


There's Heaven,

There's Cypress Point

and then

There's everything else.


 

[Mike_Cirba]

Paul,

I have to disagree.

Cypress might be the most idyllic place to play golf in the world, but I can't say it's the greatest course.  

There are a handful of holes that are just "good", not great, and one or two that are questionable.

Pine Valley has about 16 great holes and two good ones and that's tough to beat.

[THuckaby2]

Paul:

That is a great quote.
And until I played Sand Hills, I believed it whole-heartedly.
I also consider this a very agonizing choice.  I was very lucky to play Cypress just last week, and it is golf heaven without a doubt.
It's just a tiny bit below Sand Hills, on the Huckometer anyway.

My top 3 continue to be Sand Hills, Cypress, NGLA.  The order of 2 and 3 changes regularly, depending on my whim.  But #1 has remained stable since 2002.

Oh well.  Like I say, I tend to find few who agree with this.  But they do exist... and I believe more will find their way to this viewpoint as the years go on.

In any case I certainly have NOTHING against anyone who would say Cypress is #1.

TH

ps - Mike and I discuss this often.  If and when I see PV, I fully expect a shakeup.  But that day has not come, nor may it ever.

[Brad Swanson]

C'mon guys, cut Alex some slack.  The tike can't be more than 4 years old.

Tom,
   I've seen only a few other great courses, but I certainly have SH at the top of my list as well.  You are not alone in your opinion, although my assessment suffers from an unfortunately small n value.  


Cheers,
Brad Swanson

[Mike_Cirba]

If they keep "cleaning up" the sandy areas at Pine Valley, Sand Hills will overtake it in my estimation, just on the pussy factor alone.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Paul:

That is a great quote.
And until I played Sand Hills, I believed it whole-heartedly.
I also consider this a very agonizing choice.  I was very lucky to play Cypress just last week, and it is golf heaven without a doubt.
It's just a tiny bit below Sand Hills, on the Huckometer anyway.

My top 3 continue to be Sand Hills, Cypress, NGLA.  The order of 2 and 3 changes regularly, depending on my whim.  But #1 has remained stable since 2002.

I recall you waffling between SH and Cypress a few times for the #1 slot after you played SH.  

ps - Mike and I discuss this often.  If and when I see PV, I fully expect a shakeup.

So it's pre-determined that it will be in the top 3 before you've played it, huh?  

[THuckaby2]

Scott:

OK, so it likely did take me awhile to put Sand Hills securely at #1.  As I say, it was a very difficult choice.  But I don't think I've waffled on that in a good long time, anyway.

Re PV, let's just say I trust the world's opinion.  Oh, my own will carry the day, for sure.  But when the entire world has it #1, well... it's not that much of a stretch for me to say I expect a shakeup in my top 3 if I ever see it in person.  But expecting something to happen does not mean necessarily that it will occur.

TH

[Scott_Burroughs]

But I don't think I've waffled on that in a good long time, anyway.

When it comes to remembering miniscule details from posts long ago, not many beat me and Barney.    I'm not proud (not because I paired myself with Barney, but because of some of the things I remember).

[Alex_Wyatt]

Mike, my memory is unfortunately not as good as some on this site.  Looking at photos, though, I see 5 or 6 hilltop greens that would require some kind of nasty little low shot into them. I'll see if I can post the pix.

Gene, I can see you are justifiably proud of your course, so I will back off, but guys, this sure is a tough environment for trying to make comments that are against the GCA status quo.

[Tony_Chapman]

As I sit here looking at my Sand Hills photos and Sand Hills playing cards, I have a question: Can it be the best course if the greensites are repetitive? Aren't there too many skyline greens at SH for a true links?

Alex - I don't think people mind you posting against what others on here think. I think they just want examples other than "too many skyline greens."

For my money, I don't remember too many uphill approaches out there but that was 10 years ago anyway. I am foggy as well.

[George Pazin]

C'mon guys, cut Alex some slack.  The tike can't be more than 4 years old.

Just got this joke, and I must say it's the funniest thing I've read on here in awhile. Good job, Brad.

[Tony_Chapman]

C'mon guys, cut Alex some slack.  The tike can't be more than 4 years old.

Just got this joke, and I must say it's the funniest thing I've read on here in awhile. Good job, Brad.

George - Wow, I just spit Diet Coke on my screen because I didn't get until you posted that. Unbelievably funny.

[Gene Greco]

Alex:

    The fun part of associating with people on this website both on and offline is the constant debate concerning what aspects of the architecture make great golf courses "great".

It's an endless debate and if you want to challenge the "status quo" you should feel free to do so.


However, what you must always provide are facts.

  For example, a thread came up not long ago asking what are the greatest flat courses? I answered Garden City Golf Club. A member then came on and said, "Garden City is NOT flat." Well, I stood corrected then because it's been eleven years since I walked those hallowed grounds and MAYBE my perception of the grounds there were foggy.

  If you state a course doesn't give you options and said course provides a plethora of such and this is obvious to a majority of well-travelled, knowledgable golf architecture wackos then maybe your perception might not be as crisp as you think it is.

Furthermore, Geez, even Ben's Porch is a "skyline" halfway house because out there all you have is grass, sand and sky.

We're talking about the golf architecture of the MOST NATURAL GOLF COURSE IN THIS WORLD.

Voice your complaints to us plebians on this website all you like. But in the end  I'm afraid your answers will lie within a higher source    because that's who built the darn place.

[danielfaleman]

>Is Sand Hills the greatest course in the US?


Yes.

[David Kelly]

Can it be the best course if the greensites are repetitive? Aren't there too many skyline greens at SH for a true links?

There were more greens that were elevated from the fairway than I expected when I went to Sand Hills but in NO WAY were the green sites repetitive.

Its all about having options and having the course conditions to allow for all types of shots and SH certainly fits that criteria. The conditions at SH allow you to run the ball into even the most elevated greens.

Its a wonderful golf course and a wonderful place to play golf.

[Lou_Duran]

George Pazin,

Please give me a hint or two on Dr. Swanson's posting.  And remember, I'm from Texas.

GeoffreyC(guest),

When I pulled this thread up, it came up on your posting.  I was delighted that you were back, then I saw the 2002 date of the post.  You are missed.  Won't you return?

Huckaby, Cirba,

No way!  Nothing on this earth compares to the venerable one.  Mike, you just played it on a bad day with huge winds and deep-tyned greens.  And you must admit, you didn't always have command of your senses while at SH.

Huck, your fine reputation as "America's Guest" is rock solid.  You've already got the call, so why are you kissing up?

The correct answer to the question is categorily NO!  Out of some 18,000 in the U.S., I would rate SH no higher than two.  It gets superior marks on resistance to scoring, but loses points on walkability and the natural beauty of the surroundings (Pacific blue is more pleasing to my eye than bleak desert beige).

At CPC you can feel nirvana and become one with the surroundings.  SH keeps you on the edge for 18 straight holes.  To me the experience at the two is comparable to playing TOC from the members' tees, and Carnoustie from the tips (and I do believe that Carnoustie is by far the better test of golf).

 

[THuckaby2]

Lou:

The fact that I got the call twice ought to tell you that there is no kissing up involved in this.  And hey, I live an hour's drive from CPC.. if kissing up were the goal it would be far wiser not to give any sense of disrespect to that fine course.  But nice try!

 

Hey, like I say, I have no problem with anyone putting CPC as #1.  For me it remains very, very close.

But methinks you need to remember playing SH from the middle tees.  Didn't you do so back in 2002?  Yes, from the tips it does keep one on edge and is one hell of a test of golf - almost Carnoustie-like (but not quite).

From the middle tees it is as much pure fun as any course I can think of... including TOC.

Come on up a set of tees, Lou.  It's a wonderful world when one's head isn't getting bashed in.

 

[George Pazin]

Lou -

Look at the left side of Alex's posts.

I don't agree with what Brad's saying, but I do have a good sense of humor and the ability to laugh at myself.

I never tire of reading about Sand Hills, and I certainly never tire of the photos.

[RJ_Daley]

Ladies and gentlemen, there is a late arrival at gate 17, and Swanie's quip finally touched down.  To be only 4 1/2 years old and so many great leaders yet to come.  

[Brad Swanson]

Is Alex's observation one that could be considered a significant difference between the links courses of GBI and Sand Hills?  Does Sand Hills contrast in that it has a significant number of elevated approaches?  I've never played in GBI, but it seems like with this he may have a point.  Now, the fact that there are alot of elevated approaches does not mean that you cannot run the ball in, it just takes a little more precision to do so.

Cheers,
Brad Swanson

[Mike Hendren]

Huck, your fine reputation as "America's Guest" is rock solid.  You've already got the call, so why are you kissing up?

Lou,

You are mistaken.  I understand Huckster is serving in the capacity of valet only and will soon suffer the indignity of a request that he leave his clubs at home later this summer.

Mike