Have You Ever Driven A Par 4?

[Frank Sullivan]

World Woods - Pine Barrens #13...

Great story here:

http://www.worldwoods.com/fw/main/Hole_15_History-23.html

David Toms drove it vs. Phil in the Shell's special...truly is a great hole!!!!

[Ash Towe]

I did it for the first time onTuesday at Jacks Point.
284 metres very down hill and with a stiff wind behind me.  i did make the birdie.

My current handicap is 3.

I have far more success when I lay up, as I cannot reach them.

[Ben Stephens]

The 260 yards par 4 3rd (downhill!) at Rutland Water gives me a chance to get on the green most of the time (sometimes with an iron). You need to be accurate to get on the green as the is OOB left, right and back! But when you are on the tee the hole questions you whether you should play safe or go for it!

I have driven 3 par fours in one round at Golf House Club Elie! They have 4 or 5 par 4s under 300 yards! 

I have driven the green on par 4s probably over 50 times in my golf career. The most memorable one for me was driving the green on the uphill 14th at Stinchcombe Hill - 355 yards par 4! I had an eagle on the 275 yard 1st as after driving the green as well!
 

[Mark Pearce]

Yes.  The first I ever drove was the 12th at Rickmansworth but that's 260 yards downhill and the difficulty is in not taking too much club, so I don't really count that one.

Like Ben I've driven several at Elie (6, 7, 10 (several times) and 15 - I'm sure 5 and 18 are driveable in the right conditions but I haven't got close yet).  The 8th at The Northumberland GC is 300 yards from the yellows and I've driven that several times in high summer with wind behind.  There's a short par 4 at Morpeth GC (15th? 16th?) that I've driven.

Handicap is 12.

Success rate is low (<10% probably).

I suspect my average score when going for it is lower than when I lay up - I don't tend to take on high risk shots.

[Rich Goodale]

As others have said, one of the great pleasures of playing golf in the UK is the abundance of shortish par-4's.  My home course (Aberdour) has one hole (247 yards straight uphill) which is driveable in most conditions, but has a green complex which can make par difficult if your drive is wayward to the wrong side, and another 5 holes which are sometimes driveable, depending on condistions and which tees you play.  My other course (Dornoch), has 2 holes which are often driveable by mortals (1 and 15) and a few others which are sometimes in range for very big hitters (see Gary Gruber's post below).  So...

1.  Probably 50+ times on at least 20 differnet holes on 15 different courses
2.  7 handicap
3.  Probably 10-15% (when the hole is actually in range for me)
4.  I score better when going for it, in part because my wedge play is so diabolical.

[Sean_A]

As others have said, one of the great pleasures of playing golf in the UK is the abundance of shortish par-4's.  My home course (Aberdour) has one hole (247 yards straight uphill) which is driveable in most conditions, but has a green complex which can make par difficult if your drive is wayward to the wrong side, and another 5 holes which are sometimes driveable, depending on condistions and which tees you play.  My other course (Dornoch), has 2 holes which are often driveable by mortals (1 and 15) and a few others which are sometimes in range for very big hitters (see Gary Gruber's post below).  So...

1.  Probably 50+ times on at least 20 differnet holes on 15 different courses
2.  7 handicap
3.  Probably 10-15% (when the hole is actually in range for me)
4.  I score better when going for it, in part because my wedge play is so diabolical.

Rihc

I seem to recall you driving the 6th at Deal with the help of expert caddie advice - aahhmm.

If I recall, I was a foot or two off the green just past pin high - so I techinically didn't drive the green - oh dear!

Ciao

[Padraig Dooley]

1. Yes, many times, more than I can remember. Two of the more memorable ones, 9th at CPC last August and a hole in one at the 2nd in Muskerry ten years ago.
2. Professional
3. Success rate probably 1 in 10 or less.
4. The closer to the hole the easier it is to make a birdie.

[TEPaul]

Yes, I have but since the green was over the hill I think I carried the ball for about 207 yards and it probably bounced and ran about that far all the way to the green.

Do you think I made eagle? Of course not. I think I three putted for par to get comfortably into a round that was to be even par.

But I did better than that one time in the rain at Gulf Stream in Florida. I hit every fairway, every green in regulation and two putted ever hole for a really exciting even par round. On the way off the 18th green I tripped, fell down, and fell asleep for about an hour.

[Joe Bausch]

1.  Many times.  The most recent was last fall on #11 at Beechtree.   I've reached World Woods Pine Barrens #15 twice out of I think 10 times I've played there.
2.  Handicap varies between 6 and 8.
3.  Success probably less than 1 in 20.
4.  I like to believe I've done better trying to drive greens, but I'm not so sure about that.

Just yesterday at a little muni in Jersey for a fundraiser a buddy of mine that plays maybe twice a drive reached a 268 par 4 with his draw around some trees.  He drove it 267.3 yards, right in line with the flag, the proceeded to miss the 2 footer.  D'oh!

Buddy of mine back in Indiana got a hole in one on Doak's Quail Crossing, the par 4 2nd.

[wsmorrison]

Yes, I have driven a number of greens on par 4s.  I drove the 18th at St. Andrews Old Course in fading light, and who was walking out of the R&A and past the green to witness my shot (and thankfully not my 3 putt) but Sean Connery.  I could tell it was him from pretty far off, he has some kind of presence!  I've also driven the 9th at TOC, which is probably one of the easiest holes to drive and it rarely hurts to take a whack at it.  I made birdie.

I've driven the 10th at Merion East with a 3 wood from the members' tee several times (and made a good share of birdies) and with driver from the back tee twice (birdie one time, par the other), though it makes a lot less sense to try it from the back tee if scoring matters.

There's a downhill dogleg right par 4 at Paxon Hollow that I've driven a few times, cutting it over the trees.  I don't recall making birdie there.

I've driven the 1st at Philadelphia Country Club a number of times from several tees.  Because of the offset angle of the green, you can only wnd up at the front of the hole (like the 10th at Merion East).  That is one tough green to putt and I don't think I've ever made birdie, in fact one time, to a very back pin, I putted off the green.

I'm a 5.4 handicap but on any given day I can easily play like a 15.4  and some of my shots look like I'm a 25.4  which really makes Tom Paul scratch his head in bewilderment 

[David Whitmer]

Yes, I have driven the greens on par 4s quite a few times. In the last few years they have included #17 at Double Eagle, #17 at TPC Scottsdale, #5 at Long Cove, and #16 at Atlanta National.

My handicap is a 3.

I probably succeed in hitting my tee shot on the green 3 times out of 10.

I would say overall my average score is better if I lay up. I can usually hit an iron in play, and wedge it on the green from there, making bogey a rarity. Going for the green, like on #17 at Double Eagle, quite often means a 5 or a 6 if my drive is off-line. I absolutely love a good driveable par 4...more than anything, they are what I talk about first when describing a course's holes.

[Dan Herrmann]

Yep - most recently at French Creek (PA - Hanse) #15, a really wonderful short par 4 with a myrad of playing options.  I usually wouldn't shoot for the green from the tee because the risk is too high, with coffin bunkers and steep drop-offs facing a misplayed shot.

My GHIN is 10.2, which translates to 12 or 13 at FC (slope 132).

[Steve Verde]

I driven it near many green but I don't think I ever get the right combination of accuracy, length and luck.  You need to hit a good shot, but also need to hope you get some good bounces or the green is receptive.

I've probably hit more than this but the only two holes I can think of right now are the 8th at Merion West and the 4th at Downingtown.  I've hit both of them more than once and each are a 3 wood for me.  I think I'm a 6 handicap these days.

[wsmorrison]

Steve,

Thanks for reminding me about Merion West.  How could I forget?  I can reach the 1st hole, but rarely try it.  There's no driving range to get warmed up, so I usually just try to hit a 7 wood in the fairway and have a full swing in.  If I play a fun round with my sons, I'll give it a go.  I hit the 275-yard 7th green once just horsing around.  Because the stream fronts the green and there's trouble all around it, it only makes sense when you are just having fun.  I hit the 8th (245 severely uphill) pretty regularly, usually with a 3 wood.  Probably about 1/3 of the time.  I eagle it a couple of times a year, birdie it pretty often though less so than I par it.   As you know, that's a tough green if you are above the pin.  It is easy to lose a ball to the left though, so others crop up now and then.

Merion West is a wonderful course.  The drivable par 4s add temptation and interest to extremely pleasant round with enough difficulty throughout to appeal to almost any golfer. 

[Mike Hendren]

In high school I drove the par 4th 7th (295 yards) at Rolling Hills CC in Ripley, Tennessee where I grew up.  Oddly, I holed a wedge at the 360 yards sixth for a two, then drove the green to three feet for a second eagle at the 7th.  It was the only time in hundreds of rounds that I drove the 7th which was significantly uphill.  I'm sure it was the Power-Bilt permisson.

I also drove the 18th at Kilspindie (downhill and 260 yards) in Scotland to fifteen feet for an easy 3.  A great warm-up for North Berwick's West Links later that day in one of those unforgettable golf days in one's life.  Damn I've gotta get back there.

Now that I think about it,  I must be the only player int he world who has lost 60 yards off the tee notwithstanding improved technology.   Pityful.

[Brent Hutto]

No, but I've gotten close enough to use a putter for my second shot. The "putt" was 30-something yards but I was putting! God, I love playing the UK.

[J Sadowsky]

Let's take an informal survey here.  Please answer the following questions:

1.  Have you ever driven a par 4 hole?  If so, provide one or two memorable instances, as these are memorable experiences.

2.  What is your current handicap (to assess your general ability)?

3.  What is your success rate when truly attempting to drive the green on a par 4?

4.  To the best of your recollection, is your average score better when you lay up?

My answers are as follows:

1.  I've driven one or two par fours in my life.  Last year, I drove the Narrows hole, #12 at Chambers Bay, from the second set of tees, about 265 yards uphill.  I two putted from about 15 feet for birdie.

Edit:  I also drove #7 at Sand Hills the only time I tried to drive it.  Two putted from 20 feet.

I once drove it to the fringe on #6 at Pacific Dunes and made birdie.  Once I hit the top of the greenside bunker on #10 at Riviera, and needed to make an eight foot putt for par.

2.  My handicap is 2.3 today.

3.  I'd have to say I've legitimately tried to drive a par four about 100 times.  Maybe half of those times I had zero chance to reach.  I can only remember being successful twice.

4.  Yes, perhaps 0.75 - 1.00 strokes better.

I've driven one legitimat par 4 in my life (and parred it, hah) (Note: I am not counting the time I drove a 240 yard downhill "par 4" at Rock Creek muni).   Third hole at Rustic Canyon,  320 yards with the wind, went over the ridge and right to the back of the green (and then 3 putted).  My playing partner knocked a 3 wood past the hole out of bounds.  Note: On the 11th, 435 yards, with the wind going the other way, I hit driver, 3wd, 3wd, no terrible shots, to get it to the FRONT of the green (then 2 putted for bogey).

My handicap is probably over 20, and that's all I'm saying.

I rarely try.  I sometimes "try" in the sense that if there's no danger, I'll still play driver, and if it gets there, it gets there.  But if there's danger, I tend to lay up.  I've got bad hand-eye coordination, but I'm not stupid.  But when I try, I usually leave myself a decent shot over half the time.

I think my score is ABOUT the same (given that I won't go for it when there's a ton of danger), but I also think that the DELTA of my score (and as a bogey golfer, I'm quite pleased with a par) goes up when I go for it.  The only birdies I've ever had on par 4s were short par 4s when I went for it, including once, teeing off on 10 to start a round from the back 9, when I didn't see the danger, and came within 5 feet of driving it past the fairway...into a lake.  I then chipped to 2 feet.

I am disappointed when a course does not have a par 4 that plays to (note the phrase) under 300 yards, fwiw.  I think those, along with short par 3s (particularly those with interesting recovery shots), are generally my favorite holes.

[Tom_Doak]

Someone drove the fifth green at Long Cove?  Really?  And someone made a hole in one on the second at Quail Crossing?  (That would take a bit of luck due to the angle of the green.)

These posts remind me that I've probably driven more than I said.  As Sean and Rich point out, there are LOTS more sub-300 yard par-4 holes in the UK than in the USA or anywhere else.  I drove the 16th at Painswick a couple of times, once to seal a victory in the Buda Cup.  And I've driven the 18th at North Berwick multiple times ... the last time was a year ago, in almost pitch darkness at the end of a late-evening round.

[Jim Nugent]

I drove some par 4's.  The ones I remember were in 1980, on the University of MN golf course (Leo Bolstad) in St. Paul.  Number 6 and number 14. 

6 was an easy straightaway hole.  Just crank it out there, with driver for me.  300 yards and change, but elevated tee.  Number 14 doglegged sharply to the right, dropped a long ways, and had lots of trees between the tee and the green (which was blind).  I used to take 3-wood or 4-wood, go over the trees, direct to the hole.   Never saw any reason to lay up on either hole.  Drove 14 frequently; 6 on occasion.  My handicap was low single digits then. 

In high school I know I drove some greens, but can't really remember them well.  We played lots of rinky-dinky courses, that had several drivable greens for longer hitters.  I didn't have a handicap back then, but would have been low single digits. 

I'm sure my average score on these holes was much better going for the green.  But there was usually no great penalty for missing. 

[Matthew Rose]

1. Yes. The most recent and most memorable was early last year; I was visiting my grandparents in Oklahoma and I went out and played this goat ranch with a few of my relatives. The 17th hole said 320 on the card but the tees were up a bit and it was downhill with a hogback fairway, so it probably played more like 280. I hit a perfect draw, thing bounced twice pin high about 15 feet to the right of the pin, and stopped cold. Then I drained the putt for a deuce.

I've only ever eagled a par four hole twice; the other was an 80-yard pitch in back in high school.

2.  Anywhere from 4-7, depending on how often I am playing.

3.  I've been successful probably less than five times.... couldn't tell you how many attempts I've had, but I didn't play many courses with driveable holes on them growing up.

4.  I'd say that my scores have not been significantly better when laying up, because I've never had the best wedge game. I probably make more birdies from short pitches or middle irons than I do with wedges. So on short par-fours and par-fives I just bomb it as close to the green as I can and worry about it then.

[R_Paulis]

Rustic's #3 par 4 must rank high for the number attempts at driving the green (DTG). I looked at some data regarding how I play the hole. Here's a quick analysis of the estimated breakdown:

Attempt at DTG: 80%

Success: 20%
Short: 40%
Long: 5%
Left: 15%
Right: 20%

Eagle: 3
Birdie: 10
Par: 50
Bogey or greater: 30

My handicap is between 10 - 14 over the four years I've played Rustic.

[Garland Bayley]

I have driven par 4s several times, but mostly at holes that weren't a real challenge. Holes without significant defenses almost always result in a stroke saved. However, one hole where I had to drive over houses to cut the dogleg almost always resulted in an extra two strokes, because I would slice it further OB.

The most significant hole I tried on was #13 at Bully Pulpit, but popped up, as often happens when I really try to goose it.
When I played Rustic, we started on the back nine, because they were plugging and sanding the front 9 tees that morning. By the time I got to #3, I was shooting my best score in over 25 years, so I elected not to take a chance and guarded my score with an easy par.

Handicap, 18.7

At an 18.7 and usually worse, I don't score consistently enough to give much of an answer on what I score when laying up.

[Richard Boult]

1) although I didn't score very well on my 1st trip to Bandon last year, I drove the 8th at Trails, 16th at Bandon, and 16th at Pacific - no eagles.  I drive the 7th at Cypress Ridge frequently and played Encinitas Ranch recently and drove the 13th (280 carry).

2) 3.2

3) definitely miss more than I hit when going for green in 1 on par 4

4) lay up, what's that?

[Joe Bausch]

And someone made a hole in one on the second at Quail Crossing?  (That would take a bit of luck due to the angle of the green.)

My bad:  checked w/ my friend back home in Indiana and I got things mixed up.  His par 4 hole-in-one was at Cambridge. 

[Kirk Stewart]

Many times.....My home club has a 270-300 yard Par 4 that I have aced twice.

For those familar #16 at ANGC (Atlanta) which was redone by Pete in early 90s to eliminate the huge rock in front of the green and allow better visability.

I love the hole (shocker) and have made 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and X. 

True story..my best friend and regular playing partner for member events where playing a wheel the field nassua. I made the ace, my partner's ball is over the green in the back bunker in 1. He holes bunker shot for a 2.

Combined gross 3 for the hole. cha ching.....