[mike_malone]

 Ballybunion--for variety of length, direction,  elevation change, and green surrounds.

[Ryan Farrow]

From what I have seen, Riviera. Its not even close.

[Pat Howard]

Best I've played: Cypress
Best I haven't played: Pine Valley

[henrye]

I would agree with the others that have nominated Banff.  Some of my other favourites - Swinley Forest, Wentworth, Tryall & Sawgrass.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark,

There are three very good short holes at Paraparaumu Beach but the redone 14th is not very good at all.

5 and 16 have no bunkers but very exposed greens make them difficult and 2 has bunkers but they are between the tee and green and are not really in play.

They are the equal at least of those at Kidnappers and nothing else in NZ challenges these two clearly superior courses.

In Australia the West Course at Royal Melbourne has the best short holes. 16 is the best long par three in the country,5 is one of the best 3 or 4 medium length holes  and 7 is one of the best 4 or 5 short one-shotters. Even the often forgotten 13th is a good one.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:

For that matter, the East course at Royal Melbourne probably has a better set of par-3's than 80% of the top 100 courses in the world -- although I haven't seen the redone 6th East.

Justin:

Pebble's par-3 holes are not even close to the majority of those mentioned on this thread.  #7 is great, but not as great as it used to be when the green was smaller.  #17 has always been a bit overrated.  The new #5 doesn't do it for me, and I think #12 is one of the WORST holes on any top-50 course.

As for my vote, I'm on the record in The Confidential Guide as endorsing Casa de Campo [with apologies to Wayne], over Merion, Rye, Harbour Town and Pine Valley.  Still haven't been to Banff, but I'd be surprised to find it in my top five when I get there.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Tom, I didn't play RM East 6 before the redo but it sure looks beautiful to me.  (The work on the other holes is an entirely different story...)

And RM East 16 is all the more incredible for being left out of the Composite.  Supposedly in a tournament Ben Crenshaw muttered his way incredulously past the hole on his way to 17 tee. They should hold sunset parties on 16!

Hey Mike C, have you heard the talk of using RM East 16 tee as 17 tee on the *Composite* course in the Pres Cup?  I asked a member about this, specifically the blindness, and his response ran along the lines of, "Why ruin the course for the sake of a few pros?"

That would be some kind of tee shot...

RME 6



RME 16



Mark

[bakerg]

Same thoughts as Sean:

Swinley Forest has the best collection that I have played. 

[David Kelly]

In terms of spectacular, Whistling Straits has to be up there amongst the courses that I've played.  Probably a little repetitive to be considered the best overall though.

I thought WS's par threes disappointing actually and repetition being exactly the reason why.  I really liked #17 however.

My favorite collections would be Riviera, Royal Melbourne West, Pacific Dunes and Prairie Dunes.

[David Scaletti]

Hirono has a wonderful set of par 3’s. Three of them have water carries, which tends to make the knees rattle a little, and the settings for them are undeniably beautiful. Unfortunately I didn’t get to play them, but they all photographed very well.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark,
I have played the 17th Eest off the 16th East tee and it is very long and realling brings the second shot bunkers into play even for the longest hitters.
It would mean pulling out tee-tree and plaing over the 16th green - and it is never going to happen but it is a fun hole to play.

If they continue with the 1998 order (not popular amongst many here) this hole is the 9th and the next - the 2nd West is the 10th.
What they could do very easily is put a small back tee in behind the 8th green (17e) and play over the corner of the green and up the 10th (2w) fairway. It is a great looking shot and the fairway bunkers that have not been in play for 60 years are right in play for them all. Probably the carry is 290 yards and it forces players to play left or take it on.

Tom

The new 6th East is good - although not loved by many who remember the old hole and 4 and 16 are fantastic holes.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Mike

Would removing those tea trees imperil everyday golfers on 4W? My recollection is it would not, but I could see how it might draw them to hit shots closer to the dune.

I like that idea for 2W tee but if they kept 17E as 9C and 2W as 10C, then with a small field they should be able to move 10C tee back without too much disruption to flow as the field should be done with 1W / 1C.  But if they go 1C=1W and 2C=2W, wouldn't that walk back to the tee + shot disrupt getting the groups out on the course?

Mark

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark 

Hitting off 16 East down 17 East is not ideal for players coming up 4 west - they cannot see each other and it would not take much of a hook to endanger those coming up 4 west.

I am confused about what you are asking at 17 East (9 PC Composite)

When you say the field should be done with 1C/ 1W I assume you are confused with the Presidents Cup order.

1 West is 17 on the Presidents Cup Composite - so its not an issue.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

By a long way Muirfield in Scotland,

They are all magnificent Par 3’s that command respect - interestingly enough the tees are below the height of the green surface but the surface of the greens are visible. The deep bunkers close to the putting slope, inclination and cross winds make them a real challenge.

The 13th is legendary and remember Ernie Els on the 16th?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Mike

You would assume correctly. @*?#! Just how many routing possibilities are there in the first paddock anyway?!

Like discussing Hoylake's routings...

Mark

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Augusta National
CPC Bob I am with you on 3 but 7 is pretty solid hole to me
Bandon Trails incredible par 3's
Pacific Dunes
Crail
Lawsonia is pretty cool too
Sand Hills

Greg I do like 17 at Cabo del Sol alot.

Mike Sweeney is a happy man this morning.

[Jed Peters]

I just don't understand how anyone can think there is a better collection of one-shotters than at casa de campo (as tom doak noted above).

There are long and short holes, down, into, and cross wind, all different shots, all different holes.

[Mark Pearce]

By a long way Muirfield in Scotland,

They are all magnificent Par 3’s that command respect - interestingly enough the tees are below the height of the green surface but the surface of the greens are visible. The deep bunkers close to the putting slope, inclination and cross winds make them a real challenge.

The 13th is legendary and remember Ernie Els on the 16th?

I'm a huge fan of Muirfield but can't agree.  To me there is a similarity of tee shot required at each of the par 3s at Muirfield (unless playing 7 and/or 13 from well forward.  They are each very, very good holes (13 is a great hole) but I'm not convinced by them as a set in the way I am by, for instance, Swinley. 

Mention of Swinley makes me wonder why the Berkshire hasn't had at least an honourable mention.

[Tom Huckaby]

Again this is all going to depend on how one looks at it.  I cited Cypress Point because 15 and 16 are so all world great, they could have total duds for the other two and the "set" would still be world class.  But make it a point system or something and CPC likely wouldn't be at the top (ie it has two 10s, a 7 and a 6)... and likely will lose to MPCC Dunes (two 9s, two 8s).  Heck Sand Hills is right up there, Cabo del Sol Ocean, Shinnecock... there are many contenders.  10s speak loudly though, and two on one course, well.... that's my panegyric to CPC. 

I just also don't separate best from spectacular...

TH

[James Boon]

Best set of par 3s? Not been lucky enough to play Cypress Point, Royal Melbourne or some of the other more obvious ones mentioned so haow about Brora?

One short at 120 yards, two at 160 yards and one at 200 yards  give a good mix of shots. Add to that all 4 heading towards different points of the compass, on a windy day you need to be able to play a variety of shots with a variety of clubs.

Others worth mentioning? Burnham & Berrow, Woodhall Spa (yes only 3 of them but why should that matter?) Royal West Norfolk.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Mark,

I hope to be playing Swinley Forest for the first time this summer as my brother has recently moved next door - now my excitement is enhanced at the prospect of trying out the Par 3’s.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark,

There are a few routing possibilities.
The back nine on the original routing is so spread out it was difficult to create the atmosphere of other Melbourne courses where holes are close together.
The problem is the 1st hole is a fantastic opener - wide fairway,not too difficult but easy to finish up with a five footer for a par without doing anything much wrong  (not unlike 1 at St Andrews) - but a poor 17th hole.

A better routing is 1w,2w,3w,4,w,3e,4e,17e,18e,3e,4e,5w,6w,7w,10w,11w,12w,17w and 18w.
They will claim the probelm with this one is there is not enough room around 18 for the corporate tents but that should not matter in match play.
That would preclude putting a tee behind 17e for 2w.

[Mark Bourgeois]

A better routing is 1w,2w,3w,4,w,3e,4e,17e,18e,3e,4e,5w,6w,7w,10w,11w,12w,17w and 18w.

My turn. Here you mean:
1w,2w,3w,4w,3e,4e,17e,18e,1e,2e,5w,6w,7w,10w,11w,12w,17w and 18w.

Very interesting to see 10w as the 14th hole in match play -- or are you making a compromise having it here as opposed to farther up?

Also, like the official composite routing that's 3 par 3s. Just to keep this marginally on-topic to the thread, what is the objection to including 16e in either your or the official composites?  I realize it's not the longest of holes but some pin positions such as far-back left could offer great match play.  Couldn't it?

What would have to go if 16e went in?

Thanks
Mark

[Mark Bourgeois]

PS If they don't move those enormous piles of sand along the right of 18e, the product of the huge reservoir they've dug to the left of 17w, they won't have room for corporate tents on that finisher either -- so 18w it is!

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark,

Sorry - you are right. They are 3 and 4 on the original composite.

10 w is a great hole as 14 in a match - followed by four really difficult and great par fours.

Ian Baker-Finch and I had a go at convincing Mike Bodney (PGA Tour) to play 16e instead of 4e.
It is not a good walk up from 3e green to 16e tee and taking away the long 3 (4e) would leave the composite with 3 quite short par threes - 5w at 170, 7w at 135 and 16e at 160.

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