[Dan Chapman]

Out of the courses that I have played I will have to agree with Banff Springs.  Very thrilling to play.  I loved Golden Horseshoe when I played there as a youngster.  I'm playing Winged Foot West in 2 weeks so I can't wait to see those.

[BVince]

Bob,

I do think that both 3 and 7 at CPC are fantastic par 3s.  I can see why people may not enjoy the 7th because it is a demanding shot with little room for error.

As far as MPCC Shore, the 11th is one of my favorite holes of all time. 

[Kyle Henderson]

Go over to MPCC Dunes and look at the fourth, the seventh, the tenth and then the fourteenth and you have a collection of some serious par threes.  On the Shore the seventh and the ninth garner much praise, rightly so, but the eleventh seems to capture the imagination of the visiting firemen.

At Riviera ,where I was also a member, the fourth, sixth and sixteenth stand out. The fourteenth was not much of anything.

Agreed. All great holes. The 14th on the Shore is also excellent.

[Wayne_Freedman]

Yes, congratulations on recognizing the difference between 'further' and 'farther'.

The first is conceptual.
The second is grounded in our material world.

[Coral_Ridge]

How about Augusta National - the course that gets discussed quite a bit around here.  You've got 12, Golden Bell,  and 16, Redbud, which speak for themselves and then on the front nine the lesser known # 6, Juniper, and # 4, Flowering Crab Apple.  I'm not very familiar with # 4.  And then don't forget the 9 hole par -3 course right off the clubhouse.  Even though I've never played these holes, I feel like I have a couple of dozen times at least.

[cary lichtenstein]

Casa de Campo

[Patrick Hodgdon]

My knowledge of good courses is limited but maybe those who have played it can compare it. Calusa Pines has 4 very great different and distinct par-3's all in different directions (E,N,W,S) and calling for different clubs. Some great holes imo. Anyway someone who has played it and others could rank it.

[Sean_A]

Well, I gotta see some of these collections of 3s if Swinley doesn't even get a mention (so far as I could tell).  Rye always gets mentioned, but that collection is not up to snuff with Swinley.  In fact, I think Burnham & Berrow's are as good as Rye's - perhaps better (the final par 3 at Rye being just ok) and I wouldn't put Burnham's in Swinley's class.

Ciao

[Steve Lapper]

At least in the northeast it has to be Winged Foot GC.

Not even close....

Pine Valley
Shinnecock
Somerset Hills
Friars Head
Plainfield
Myopia Hunt Club


Other Places:

Royal Melbourne West
Kingston Heath
Barnbougle
Cypress Point
Prairie Dunes
Sand Hills
Pac Dunes
Casa de Campo
Royal Portrush
Rye

[Dan Boerger]

Wayne - I've only played Rolling Green one time, and it was in a member/guest shotgun event so it wasn't the ideal way to experience the course (at least for me). You're right, of course, the par 3's were very impressive (the par 5's didn't knock me over however). I do recall one of the par 3's (14 I think) being as near treacherous as PV #5. Reason to get to RG again!

PV and Merion have been discussed here lots of times (perhaps the understatement of the year), and each course has four 3's that with tremendous variety that any fan of GCA would be wise to study.

[David Whitmer]

Of the courses I've played, I think Camargo has the best collection of par 3s. I also really liked Pacific Dunes and Scioto. Great variety on all of them, and not a weak hole in the bunch.

[Steve Verde]

Pine Valley followed by Merion in this neck of the woods.

You could probably say that about any question for this are.  However, I will argue that Merion's par 3's are not great.  The par 3's on the back 9 are great with 13 being a great short hole and 17 being a great long hole, but I will say 3 and 9 are just average compared to the rest of the course.  They are both good holes but not good enough for the whole collection of par 3's to be considered great.  Merion's strong and varied collection of par 4's is what makes it a great course.

[wsmorrison]

Dan,

Interesting about the par 5s at Rolling Green.  They are among the weaker holes on the course and probably keep it from being on many people's top 50 lists.  The mighty 9th is an excellent long par 5 (uphill 614 yards, same yardage as in 1926).  I think it is very difficult to design a great long par 5, but Flynn managed to do so with its rolling and canted fairway.  The other par 5s (7,17 and 18) were rumored to be designed to alternate one hole being a par 4 at a given time.  I like the 7th as an interesting risk/reward short par 5 with a tremendous green.  The 17th hole is flat out weak with a terrible back tee (popping some 12' or so above grade, it would have been better on grade but a lot of trees would have to come out--not a bad thing at all).  The 18th is a classic example of lengthening gone wrong with a strategic disconnect since the corner of the dogleg cannot be reached by 90% of golfers playing the back tee.  Thus it is a driver, 7 iron, 7iron hole.  Boring, especially for the last hole!

Yet the par 4s and par 3s are all superb.  The 14th is reminiscent of the 5th at Pine Valley and is just as strong.  The 10th is a wonderful design using the natural grade to create a hole that was intended to be a 260-yard par 3 in 1926 because of the shot test integrating with the terrain...that is a low running draw.  The 3rd is a deceptive hole that runs front to back while it appears strongly sloped back to front.  The 6th is a solid par 3 set on a ridge.  While longer than the 11th at Shinnecock Hills and not the same in design details, it is of a similar concept.  And finally 16 is a marvelous short par 3 in a beautiful setting.  That is if you can disregard that horrible cart path that was recently put in.  It should have gone in the woods to the left.

The club has promised me a foursome for allowing them to use my material on their website (I suppose it is still there).  If you'd like to join me, that would be great.  I've got to remind them one of these days.

Regards,
Wayne

By the way, I cannot see how Casa de Campo's Teeth of the Dog course gets so much praise.   

[wsmorrison]

Steve,

Sorry to disagree, but I think the 3rd and 9th are world class par 3s along with 13 and 17.  There can only be a handful of par 3 greens as good or better than the 3rd.  It is 48 yards long.  The tees are such that a low handicapper can play yardages from 185 to 225 to the middle of the green.  It plays uphill and is very well bunkered.  The tees point you to the right towards the large right greenside bunker.  If you played the hole and the pin was in the front, you missed some wonderful pin positions and shot demands.  By the way, what would you think if there was an apron fronting the green draped down the hill a ways?

The 9th is fabulous.  The crescent shaped green and alternate tee angles along with the stream, pond and bunkering creates not only a beautiful hole, but a very demanding downhill hole.

[mike_malone]

 Wayne,

    What does "weak" mean to you ?

[Steve Verde]

A course I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet is Bandon Trails.  I forgot about Bandon Trails and Pacific Dunes when I made my first post but they  certainly have some of the best par 3's around.  #'s 2, 5 and 17 at BT are tough to beat.  They are all stunning holes with some great greens.  I'm not that huge of a fan of #12 but it doesn't take away that much from the collection as a whole

[Paul_Turner]

Meyrick Park

[wsmorrison]

Mike,

What does it mean to you? 

For me, it is a relative term within the context of the remaining holes.  The hole is weak because of the way the tee was lengthened, both from an aesthetic point of view and from a playability point of view.  It is too much like the 18th with its new back tee.  That is, two holes that turn significantly with the tee shots positioned so as to make reaching the turn impossible for most.  In the case of the 17th it is not pure yardage, the added distance means you're hitting into an upslope.  In the case of the 18th, even though it is downhill, the yardage is much greater to the turn and therefore causes the strategic disconnect.  The approach shot to the 17th is very good as is the green.  Yet, how the hole plays and in the routing progression (that is right before the 18th) it results in a very disappointing finish.  I think the hole was much better from the old tee making it a par 5 with a reasonable birdie chance, which is fine for the penultimate hole.  The 18th would be far better accepted as a long hang on kind of par 4.  Seventeen would be an easier 4 than 18.  Right now, there are two relatively easy and boring holes with the method of play too constrained and dictated.  Unfortunately, the final two holes leaves a lasting impression that subordinates the impression you get on the previous 16 holes.

[J Sadowsky]

I'm not sure it's #1, but I'm surprised by the lack of votes for Pebble Beach.

Also surprised by the lack of votes for Mid Ocean Club.

[mike_malone]

 Wayne,

   Thanks for your views. My defintion of "weak" is a hole that has little challenge beyond its length. When challenges exist that are both execution challenges and preshot strategic challenges I see a hole as strong.


   I think it is critical for #17 and #18 at Rolling Green that the challenge to get to the "go-for-it" place on the drive from both the member and championship tees must always exist.

   I  believe that except for very wet conditions that condition exists from those tees now.  Your experience may be different, but I have seen you drive the ball and don't see how you couldn't get to the ideal place on #17-#18 from the back tees.

   But, the punishment for a misdirected tee shot can be a second shot that is a layup of some sort. This is one reason why these holes are par 5's--the landing areas aren't easy for aggressive drives.

   I don't see many laying back on their tee shots on these holes, because they believe the cost of a mishit is not too severe like OB or water. If the risk exceeded the reward the hole would be "weaker" because one wouldn't take the challenge often.

  So, the challenge for execution and the preshot challenge seems intriguing on both of these holes from both sets of tees.



   Then the challenge for execution/preshot seems to exist for the second shot as well. Unless you made the mishit which you knew would result in  a boring punchout .

     As you approach both greens you are pressured by the width of #17 green as well as its raised nature and the narrow width of the tree lines on #18.


   The more I play these holes the more I find myself hitting many different shots each time . In fact, the choices I make are more varied than most other holes on the course. That is what makes them "strong" to me.


   I just don't see that disconnect you speak of, even for you!

[Adam Clayman]

Justin, Silence, or lack of "votes" tells us nothing.
  Can it be assumed that great courses have great sets of one shotter's? Some do get away with 3 out of 4. I'm thinking of the first one at CPC. A nice hole that just pales to the other three. Pebble Beach gets away with 2 out of 4, now.

What quantifies great? Who's to say? I know how a hole makes me feel. That feeling, when memorable, is my confirmation of greatness. Putting four compelling and unique one shotter's within 18 holes is not easy.

Jans National even has a great set. I forget how many they have, but at least one is all world in the way it made me feel. Or, at least how I remember it. Same with Waveland's #'s 3 & 6.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I don't think Woodhall Spa qualifies as it only has three short holes. TOC is ineligible as it only has two. Ganton only has two as played from the members' tees (when the 17th is rated a 4). May I throw Ballybunion into the mix? I think Royal County Down's are worthy of a shout, too. Let's have a crack at Royal Worlington - play 18 holes and you get the 2nd and 5th twice - anyone coming away with twelve shots for the four holes has done well. I should like to suggest The Addington, too. The 1st may be nothing much but there are four other goodies. Nobody's mentioned Painswick yet....  

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Does Paraparaumu Beach qualify?

[Andrew Mitchell]

Meyrick Park

Paul
That came out of left field but is an extremely good call!

[Jim Colton]

In terms of spectacular, Whistling Straits has to be up there amongst the courses that I've played.  Probably a little repetitive to be considered the best overall though.

I'd put Pacific Dunes up there too with bonus points for having the unique back-to-back par 3's.

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