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John Beaumont

Open Boredom
« on: July 18, 2002, 04:20:27 PM »
Many of our American friends (writes an Englishman) will no doubt have seen some of the golf at the first round of the Open.  For me Peter Alliss certainly summed it up half way through the afternoon when he said that he was bored stiff with watching it all, in particular with watching 2 irons being hit off almost every tee.  Later on he compared it to playing the 10th at the Belfry 18 times in succession.
      But, if it is boring (as it is) whose fault is it.  The authorities for not dealing with the problem of developments in ball and club technology.  After voicing his complaint, Alliss simply said that it was merely a sign of the times, as if nothing much could be done.  Not so.  Steps could be taken to set things to rights.
      On a related point, the R and A did try to make the course fast running, but they can’t be blamed for the fact that there has been so much rain over here in the last few months.  Unlike this, however, the problem of equipment does not depend on the weather.
      Am I right or am I just getting cynical as I grow older?  What do others think out there?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff_Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2002, 04:32:51 PM »
B-O-R-I-N-G. Yup. Links golf without wind...what do the scots say, nae wind, nae rain, nae golf? Just have to hope for a bit of weather the next three days or these guys will continue to be able to get away with this extraordinarily conservative style of play...and by the way, Tiger said he was hitting 5 irons for his 250 yard tee balls....yikes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Geoff Shackelford

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2002, 04:38:02 PM »
John,
Add me to the list of bored, cynical, whatever. It made for dreadful viewing. Very few instances of shotmaking, interesting recovery play, etc... David Toms hitting driver off of 18 tee was the big shotmaking risk of the day. Thrilling stuff.

The dreariness comes from the set up of the course, which has been setup to mask the technology (yes, I know, the players are in better shape, etc...).

The way this will all change is when Tim Finchem realizes Tour golf is less interesting to watch (and ratings slip) because there are fewer options, fewer risks taken, less of everything and too much "obedience" golf. The best robot wins. I think they are closer than ever before to the realization that this is all must less interesting, but they still have a ways to go. Of course, tennis has seen the same shift and they still haven't done a single thing to restore some balance between shotmaking and power.
Geoff
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

LeeH

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2002, 04:43:13 PM »
Is it just naive thinking or could they for example have narrowed the fairways right down at IRON distance instead of driver, and made a 2iron drive a lot less attractive option than a biff with a driver.
I'm no expert so apologies in advance if I am talking out of my arse.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2002, 04:45:54 PM »
Muirfield is largely a "position" course, which is why I believe many more players than just Tiger will be in contention on Sunday.  

In 1966, Jack Nicklaus only used his driver 17 times that week in winning.  

Like yourself, I'd really like to see it playing firm and fast, simply because the ground contours tend to direct slightly mishit shots towards the bunkers.  

Like Nicklaus in 66, Tiger today only used his driver a handful of times.  Why is that?

For instance, the carry of the left-hand bunkers on 18 is 279 yards.  Why doesn't Tiger (as well as others) just attempt to blow his driver over it?

Certainly, many here have suggested that today's pros are SOOO good that any course less than 7,000 yards is child's play for these guys.  Yet, those same individuals don't seem to be able to answer why Lytham provided such a test last year in relatively benign conditions.  Shouldn't someone have just ripped up Muirfield today with soft conditions and little wind??

I think Patrick Mucci has it right when he says that it's the fact that the bunkers are actually hazards.  

That's why the contestants are shying away from them, and why the course is playing like it's 1966.  


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:07 PM by -1 »

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2002, 04:58:18 PM »
Geoff,

Do you really think they are close to that realization?  As long as Tiger is in the hunt, the TV ratings are the best they have ever been for golf.  The TV money has never been better.  Sponsors are pouring in.  I think they are farther away than ever.  Simple reality - If technology has add 15% to the length of the average drive then a 280 yard driver has gained 42 yards and a 240 yard driver has gained 32 yards.  My point - the more technology advances, the more Tiger's advantage grows.  The more Tiger's advantage grows, the more likely he is to be on the leader board.  The more Tiger is in the hunt, the more money the PGA Tour gets from TV and sponsors.  I am sure Tim Finchem has realized just this equation.  It does make for boring golf for the purist but it feeds the gravy train.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

Geoff Shackelford

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2002, 05:14:29 PM »
David,
It may be wishful thinking on my part, but Frank Hannigan wrote an excellent series in Golf World earlier this year that indicated he felt Finchem's speaking up about the USGA/RandA situation was a sign that Finchem saw the entertainment value of the tour slipping because of the way the game is played. That the "product" week in and week out was hurt.  There does have to come a time when Tiger winning constantly becomes less interesting, if that hasn't happened already. Then again, changes in equipment regulations will only further expose his superior talents, so that must confuse the situation even more for them!

So yes, ratings are up...when Tiger plays. When he doesn't play, at least here in LA where they publish the ratings in the Times each week, the ratings are awful for Tour events he skips. The ratings are comparabe to Senior events on network TV. I'm assuming that's pretty much the same elsewhere. And with Tiger only playing 18 Tour events a year, and probably closer to the minimum in the coming years, Finchem has to think about the entertainment value of the other 30 weeks (reducing the number of events would be a great start!).

Then again, the tour has never placed much of a premium on architecture and it's relationship with exciting golf, so who knows if they see the big picture in terms of technology and shotmaking.  I do sense the Tour feels something is "off" but the solution is not clear, and understandably so when the primary problem solving methods they implore always come through marketing campaigns, not substantive changes to the way the game is played, or the venues it's played on.
Geoff
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2002, 05:18:05 PM »

Quote
For instance, the carry of the left-hand bunkers on 18 is 279 yards.  Why doesn't Tiger (as well as others) just attempt to blow his driver over it?

Mike - isn't the rough past the bunkers particularly hellacious also?  I sure remember it that way... Meaning you don't want to get in any bunker, indeed - but you also DON'T want to be in the rough.  And given it's damn narrow all the way tee to green, thus the 2-iron.

Welcome to the how our US Open is far too often, UK viewers.  Now do you get why they've been saying Muirfield is the most "American" of the Open rota links?

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2002, 05:23:55 PM »
Ok, President Huckaby...  ;)

The rough at Bethpage was "hellacious", as well, with narrow fairways, but Tiger and the boys used drivers all day.  

Were any fairway bunkers in play at Bethpage?  Sad to say, the only ones that seemed to be were on 12 (which Tiger and Mickelson blew by while the ball was still rising) and the new Rees bunkers on 18.  How many hit driver on 18 at BB?

I wouldn't criticize Muirfield for the fact that the rough is much thicker than they were hoping for.  It's been raining like crazy in Scotland, and unfortunately, Muirfield is no more an Americanized course than Carnoustie or Turnberry is (which were also setup too narrow for how thick the rough got during recent Opens).  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Lou Duran

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2002, 05:26:27 PM »
The course setup is what's making the golf so boring.  With 2 - 3 feet of hay just off the most narrow fairways that I have seen (don't remember Carnoustine all that much), and very slow greens, its no wonder that they're keeping the driver in the bag.  Narrow the fairways from 200 - 240, broaden them beyond that, speed up the greens (not a lot you can do about the softness), and cut down some of the hay around the green surrounds and the tournament could be exciting.  If there is no wind, let the leaders shoot well under par.  One of the more memorable Opens was  Watson's win over Nicklaus (@ Turnerry, I believe) and the two were way under par.  Hasn't it been argued on this site that par is not important?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2002, 05:29:11 PM »

Quote
Ok, President Huckaby...  ;)

The rough at Bethpage was "hellacious", as well, with narrow fairways, but Tiger and the boys used drivers all day.  

Were any fairway bunkers in play at Bethpage?  Sad to say, the only ones that seemed to be were on 12 (which Tiger and Mickelson blew by while the ball was still rising) and the new Rees bunkers on 18.  How many hit driver on 18 at BB?

I wouldn't criticize Muirfield for the fact that the rough is much thicker than they were hoping for.  It's been raining like crazy in Scotland, and unfortunately, Muirfield is no more an Americanized course than Carnoustie or Turnberry is (which were also setup too narrow for how thick the rough got during recent Opens).  


I stand very much corrected - very good points all around.  This is why my only lasting contribution as President will be my fine cabinet choices.   ;)

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2002, 05:35:18 PM »
I think there might be a misconception that tour golf is thriving.  Geoff Shackleford is right, when Tiger plays, the event does thrive.

One of the major magazines published a list of events that are in trouble, a couple of months ago.  That was before Buick pulled out of the Challenge (? so many how do you know, the one at Callaway Gardens) recently.

The British Open will probably be the most watched ever (so long as Tiger stays in it), but with the forecasted weather over the next three days, I think it will become more interesting as well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2002, 05:41:04 PM »
Ben,

What is the weather forecast?  I hadn't heard.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2002, 05:42:42 PM »
Geoff,

I hope you are right and I am wrong.  All I ever hear about is the effect of the almighty dollar and the dollar rolls in from TV, even if Tiger is not there (Remember the contract has nothing to do with Tiger).

David,

Since when has sport ever thought long term?  Just look at baseball about to embark on another strike under the "Fans are sheep and will always return to graze" theory.  The word rebuilding roughly translates to "All my predecessors decisions sucked and because he was such a worthless idiot I must have at least five years to fix all his mistakes - please feel free to egg him if you pass him in the street for the mess he left me."  The only time sport thinks long term is when it is self-serving.  I suspect that as long as Tiger is here, tomorrow will never come.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

Jeff_Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2002, 05:45:31 PM »
Weather.com has rain tomorrow and saturday, but winds never above 15 mph in any of the next 3 days. Of course, if we could predict the weather on the firth of forth, the stock market would be a layup.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Rob Hallford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2002, 05:46:05 PM »
Maybe I'm confused... ???

Long courses requiring driver off every tee are boring (Bethpage)
Short courses requiring 2 iron and positioning your way around the golf course are boring (Muirfield).
Technology is ruining the game, but Tiger hits driver about as often as Jack did in 1966 and the current leader is 5 under in IDEAL scoring conditions.
We want to go back to "the way it was" before technology ruined everything, but 1966 was boring, too.

Do I have this right?

C'mon guys.  Everyone knows that if the wind doesn't blow and conditions are soft the players will hit point to point like they do in America, just not using driver because the course is short and the rough/traps are penal.  How often does it not blow in Scotland?  If the wind is up for the weekend we'll be in for some fun viewing, but if it isn't, that's not the fault of the course or the setup or Tim Finchem ;).  Well, maybe Tim has something to do with it but I can't figure out what.

indy
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2002, 05:46:37 PM »
I believe Patrick Mucci is correct: It's the bunkers (I'm going to resist the abrasive Clintonian insult that's often tacked onto that phrase.)

Somebody surely would have ripped up Muirfield under today's conditions had the field gone with drivers instead of 4-irons off the tees -- but while a handful would have gone low, most of them would have found enough pot bunkers to finish 10 shots back of the leaders. Tiger isn't the only player who's become a latter-day Nickalus; nobody wants to shoot himself out of it on day one (or day 2, 3 or 4, apparently), so nobody challenges the pot bunkers.

Though I'm a strong advocate of the competition ball, I'm not sure how that would change what's happening at Murifield. Whatever club keeps the pros short of the bunkers is the club they're going to use off the tee -- even if it becomes a driver with restricted-flight balls.

I think that much of what we attribute to equipment or course tinkering is really just the inherent conservatism of today's pro. No wonder Mickelson has become so popular -- most golf fans would rather see him lose spectacularly than watch Tiger win conservatively (not me, by the way.)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:07 PM by -1 »
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Mike_Cirba

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2002, 05:57:46 PM »
Courtesy of LeeH from another thread;

David Pepper, chairman of the R&A’s championship committee, and in charge of setting up the course, says: "We want to present Muirfield in a true and traditional way. That means we want the course to be fast-running. It should look more straw-coloured than green, even to the extent that the putting surfaces don’t look green at all."

Good news. With the exception of St Andrews in 2000, Open venues over the past 15 years or so have been too soft, and the greens too slow. "Since pop-up sprinklers came in, they have inevitably been used too much," admits Pepper. "Whoever has his finger on the trigger is always tempted to pull.

"Of course, only one Open venue does not have pop-up sprinklers, and that is Muirfield. The only fear we always have, come July, is that if the greens are too fast and we get a high wind, the balls may start moving on the greens. Having to suspend play for that reason is always very embarrassing, so we want to avoid that.

"That doesn’t mean that we can’t have firm fairways and greens. The intention is that the ball should be bouncing and running - and it will be, if we get the right weather leading up to the championship."

Things are well under way on that front. On Monday, when the press pack were set loose on the course - some are still out there, probably - it was all but impossible to make a pitch mark on the firm greens. Then there is the rough, the stuff which caused so much controversy at Carnoustie in ’99. But not this time, if Pepper has his way. And he will.

"As far as the rough goes, I want it to be generally out of play. There are degrees of rough, and we want two cuts of rough before the stuff that has barely been touched. There will be three yards of what I call ‘very semi’, then three yards of stuff that won’t have been cut for maybe eight weeks beforehand. That will be the sort of long, wispy grass in which you can see the ball easily, but will grab the club. Then, of course, you’re into the real hay.

"Six yards is enough, I think. If a well-struck shot hits the fairway, it won’t reach the really thick stuff. A player’s ball should only finish in it if he has hit it in there in the first place. Of all the golf course’s defences, rough comes right at the bottom of my list of priorities. If you have stringent bunkering - which you certainly have at Muirfield - intelligent pin positions, fast greens and a bit of wind, you have no real need for rough at all."

Around the greens, it will be a similar story. Pepper’s vision is to leave players with choices on their chips. To that end, a ball bouncing off a green will continue to roll a few yards away from the putting surface.

"My philosophy around the greens is similar to that of the fairways," Pepper stresses. "Any time a green is raised, the banks will be shaved so that the ball always runs to the bottom of the slope. I never want to see it sticking halfway. There is no easier pitch shot than the one from halfway up the bank."

But the last words belong to Dawson, whose profound knowledge of links golf - proper golf, unlike the one-dimensional stuff too often seen in the US - and how it should be played augurs well for the future.

"I think the essence of links golf is that there is always a side of the fairway into which you must hit your drive in order to gain the most advantageous position for your approach," he maintains. "If you don’t hit it there, on most holes you will still have a shot - but a much more difficult one. It’s a half-shot difference. And the art of links golf is saving those half-shots all the way round.

"I’d like to see the course very firm and browning off nicely with the balls running. As for the greens, I’d like to see them receptive to a well-struck shot from the fairway, but not receptive to a poorly-struck shot from the fairway or a shot from the rough."

Hmmm....I'm not quite sure that it's worked out as planned.  :-/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2002, 08:49:55 PM »
They've just had a bit too much rain this season for the course to play exactly as hoped for--isn't that the situation there with the lack of real speed on that course?

Not much anyone can do about that!

As for Phil Mickelson--once again he seems to be approaching this tournament with a different game plan than all the others. I like Mickelson for that--always have.

If he goes about this differently than all the others and this is a site and a course where that actually could happen bigtime (since everyone else seems to be unusually conservative at Muirfield) and he beats these guys with a much different game plan that at least will be a great story.

I hope he does it because I'm so tired of listening to these people who say they can tell Mickelson how to play his game better than he does!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

CB

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2002, 10:15:08 PM »
With the utmost sincerity, I really feel sorry for you guys if you were bored watching the British Open today or the U.S. Open last month.  But I guess becoming a "golf connoisseur" carries with it risk of seeing the game as 4% empty instead of 96% full, or whatever your numbers might be.  There were so many things to enjoy about today's play especially, but oh well, I won't try to convince anyone.

Face it, golf has not been and will never be exactly as we want it.  If you can't enjoy it because it isn't exactly "right" then that's your choice but count me out.

By the way, Corey Pavin beat Tiger Woods today!!  That in itself made today interesting!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

CB

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2002, 10:19:59 PM »

Quote
If he goes about this differently than all the others and this is a site and a course where that actually could happen bigtime (since everyone else seems to be unusually conservative at Muirfield) and he beats these guys with a much different game plan that at least will be a great story.

Remembering 1999, Jean Van de Velde was really one of the very few who hit driver all week, while everyone else hit irons, and it got him a three-shot lead on the 72nd tee.  So there might be the opportunity for Mickelson or someone else who is aggressive and on his game to do the same (hopefully playing the 72nd differently, however!).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Matt_Ward

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2002, 10:26:58 PM »
What many people don't understand is that players at the highest level will play what they are given. When you have hay just off the fairways and can still get to the green without hitting a driver why take the risk if your timing is off with the big stick. Anyone coughing up a double-bogey is going to need two birdies to get that back. As we all know it's the mistakes not the great shots that keep you either in or out of contention.

At Bethpage the option in hitting less club and STILL getting home with an iron was not possible with the few exceptions being Tiger and maybe a small handful of others. You absolutely NEEDED to hit driver on a number of holes and in some cases there were a few players who needed two woods / metals to get home.

Nicklaus played what the course gave him in 1966 -- did anyone call that boring when he won? Jack did the same thing in '72 and when it became apparent that he needed to change tactics he did -- his last round 66 almost propelled him to another BO win. It's using the tactics that best get you the claret jug. End of story.

Before people start carping about boredom I remind everyone we only have one round in thus far. A little patience please.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Michael_Burrows

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2002, 10:40:07 PM »
With the conditions that way they are everyone in the field has a chance. I would rather watch six guys battle it down to the wire instead of watching tiger destroy the field.  Have you thought that maybe because the tournamnet starts so early that you get tired of watching for 9 hours and that maybe it is not so boring as long.

Lor Duran
I would rather see a course test the player than see the player shot way under par. As far as conditions so what deal with it. Cmon the course is still tough. Yes I would like to see the course play a little faster but still it is fun to watch because everyone is it.

I agree with TEPaul
Phil is the guy you have to feel sorry for. It is like encouraging a child to do something " YOU can do it" but the ending has the same sad ending if your a Phil Mickelson fan. I hope Phil wins and if it comes down to the last day with tiger and Phil tied I would have to cheer for Phil. If either one of them won it would be great for the game of golf.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Lou Duran

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2002, 11:14:09 PM »
I do not advocate setting-up a course to be a birdie fest.  On the other hand, Muirfield has sufficient defenses (bunkers, wind, and inclement weather) that it doesn't need the combination of ultra-narrow fairways and lush, 3' rough.  If the wind blows 20 mph like I heard forecasted, the course will be extremely difficult, even with soft, slow greens.

Personally, I enjoy seeing the driver used at least on half of the driving holes.  If the fairways were cut at the normal width, and the rough was less penal, I think that the fairway bunkers would come into play more, and different types of shots would be played.  While I concede that the softness of the greens can't be helped, I am sure that is not the case with their speed.  I haven't decided whether the current setup favors Tiger, but he putted very poorly today and he is not far from the lead.  Hopefully, the wind will blow tomorrow, and this will force the drivers out of the bag.  However, I wouldn't be surprised if this would just play into Tiger's strengths.      
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Michael_Burrows

Re: Open Boredom
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2002, 12:40:41 AM »
I would like to see some of the players hit driver too but you have to play smart. The players are trying to win they are not out there puting on a show. I hope the wind is more of a factor but if it rains and there is no wind the guys are just going to be throwing darts at the greens.

Does anyone know how the greens are being mowed or if they have rolled them this week at all?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »