Toscana CC in Indian Wells (South Course)

[David Ober]

A Nicklaus "Signature" design, I hear.

Anyone play it yet?

[Matt_Cohn]

You playing it for that tournament?

[Daryl David]

The South Course puts a premium on driving accuracy as the fairway bunkers can be a real penalty.  Greens are not dramatic with mostly subtle breaks.  When in doubt look to the ball moving down valley. (I know the Indio effect is a tired phase, but it is usually true)

Not sure how long they will they will set it up, but it can stretch to 7500.  The ball is rolling nice now as the overseed is starting recede and bermuda is waking up.   Should be a fast track relative to other times of the year.

Water is in play on about 7 holes with forced carries.  If you get some wind, the par threes can be tough.  Two are small targets over water.  The 5s are reachable, but there is danger around the greens if you are not accurate.

Not a bad course. Can be fun.  Think "new Nicklaus" as opposed to PGA West style Nicklaus.

[John Kirk]

I know a GCA member who knows the course very well.  I've played it twice.  Straightforward golf holes on the desert floor.  Attractive and very well maintained.  We played the second set of tees, but the back tees look to be medium difficult.  Decent variety of holes offering a pretty comprehensive test of skills.  Not much elevation change as you might expect.  No truly drivable par fours.  Subtly contoured greens.

Driving the ball there is a challenge.  The course has a lot of holes which turn a little, with a very deep, large bunker at the turning point.  I imagine there ae 6-8 holes from the back tees where a very consistent 255-260 yard carry is required to cut the corner and get a yardage bonus.  These are some of the most penalizing fairway bunkers I've played.  Balls bounce into the firm sand hazards and roll to the front, leaving short iron escape as the only option.

Tough, fair, and nice.  Solid but unspectacular when compared to some of the group's favorite courses here.  I think you'll like it for tournament play.

John

[Daryl David]

I found a couple of pics.

Par 3 4th


Par 4 6th

[David Ober]

You playing it for that tournament?

Yeah, Matt. SCGA Mid-Am: http://www.scga.org/08midam/index.html

Definitely one of my favorites of the year.

[David Ober]

The South Course puts a premium on driving accuracy as the fairway bunkers can be a real penalty.  Greens are not dramatic with mostly subtle breaks.  When in doubt look to the ball moving down valley. (I know the Indio effect is a tired phase, but it is usually true)

Not sure how long they will they will set it up, but it can stretch to 7500.  The ball is rolling nice now as the overseed is starting recede and bermuda is waking up.   Should be a fast track relative to other times of the year.

Water is in play on about 7 holes with forced carries.  If you get some wind, the par threes can be tough.  Two are small targets over water.  The 5s are reachable, but there is danger around the greens if you are not accurate.

Not a bad course. Can be fun.  Think "new Nicklaus" as opposed to PGA West style Nicklaus.

I think we're playing it at just over 7,000 yards. Should be quite fun and will likely play shorter than that if the fairways are firm and fast. Do the drives favor a fader or drawer of the ball?

[David Ober]

I know a GCA member who knows the course very well.  I've played it twice.  Straightforward golf holes on the desert floor.  Attractive and very well maintained.  We played the second set of tees, but the back tees look to be medium difficult.  Decent variety of holes offering a pretty comprehensive test of skills.  Not much elevation change as you might expect.  No truly drivable par fours.  Subtly contoured greens.

Driving the ball there is a challenge.  The course has a lot of holes which turn a little, with a very deep, large bunker at the turning point.  I imagine there ae 6-8 holes from the back tees where a very consistent 255-260 yard carry is required to cut the corner and get a yardage bonus.  These are some of the most penalizing fairway bunkers I've played.  Balls bounce into the firm sand hazards and roll to the front, leaving short iron escape as the only option.

Tough, fair, and nice.  Solid but unspectacular when compared to some of the group's favorite courses here.  I think you'll like it for tournament play.

John

Thanks, John. :-)

Will be playing a practice round there in the coming weeks. Looking forward to it....

[Peter Wagner]

Hi David,

I've played Toscana 4 times with the last round being a week ago.  I'm a 15 handicap and we played the blue (members) tees each time I was there.

Conditioning:  Easily a 10.  Competition is tough between high-end desert courses and conditioning is one of the weapons used in the battle for members.  The result is the not-one-blade-of-grass-out-of-place style of grooming.

Bunkers:  As noted above, the fairway bunkers are tough.  So tough that you just don't want to go there.  There are tons of bunkers on the south course.  There are so many on one of the closing holes (16 or 17) that I just started laughing the first time I played.  Most of the bunkers are the can't see over the lip kind so if you find a fairway bunker it will cost you.

Greens:  Uncomplicated, fast, very smooth, VERY firm and not much undulation.  I find the greens a little too easy.  They're almost 'resorty' but not quite.  It's almost as if Jack was thinking that if you got past all those bunkers than here's your reward of an easy putt.

I shot a low round at Toscana last week (84 for a 15 handy) by:
1.) Good driving.  I didn't hit one fairway trap by hitting over most of them.
2.) Hitting long on approaches to avoid the 10,000 traps in the front.  In some cases I'd just chip back for a par attempt.
3.) I hit only one bunker and that was intentional.

If I were going to play a tourney there I would:
1.) Bring a friend, caddie, or stripper to hold a reflector at the back of various fairway bunkers while I zapped and recorded yardages from the tee.  Jack uses some optical tricks with the sizes of his fairway bunkers.  Several times I found myself on the tee trying to guess the distance to fly a trap.
2.) Practice bunker shots.
3.) I would guess a great putter will eat these greens up in your tourney so I'd practice there too.

Toscana should be congratulated for working with the SCGA to host this tourney.  That's a very cool thing IMO.

There ya go... now your getting tournament advise from a high handicapper!  Toscana will be a fair test.  Good luck in your tournament!

Best,
Peter

[Sean Leary]

 These are some of the most penalizing fairway bunkers I've played.  Balls bounce into the firm sand hazards and roll to the front, leaving short iron escape as the only option.



John

Is this pretty standard for Nicklaus these days? A couple I have played had the same thing.

[tlavin]

That is some over-the-top maintenance.  The cut lines look as sharp as some Brazilians I've seen...

[Daryl David]

That is some over-the-top maintenance.  The cut lines look as sharp as some Brazilians I've seen...

Maintenance is supurb.  For example, Toscana stays closed much longer in the fall than the other desert courses for overseeding. This is to ensure that playing conditions don't suffer one bit when the fall reopening occurs.  Most courses rush to get open and you have a month of iffy grass that never seems to perform properly.

Motivation for perfection definitely comes from wanting to sell real estate, but it also helps to have the development owner living there!

[cary lichtenstein]

Flawless conditioning, I enjoyed it

[C. Squier]

That is some over-the-top maintenance.  The cut lines look as sharp as some Brazilians I've seen...

Terry, the broadcast committee at Augusta called, they booked you a room w/ McCord somewhere in Ohio for next week.

Played Toscana last year, not a blade out of place.  Plenty of fauna, nicest showers and every kind of candy in the locker room you could imagine.  But that all took away from the course, IMO.  Played the 9 holes on the North too....felt like I was in a terrarium. 

CPS

[David Ober]

Played a practice round today. I have never seen a Nicklaus course with so many holes that favor -- at least visually -- a right-to-left tee ball. That course just confounds me (a low fader of the ball) to no end!

I'll make the cut (if my hip holds up) at the Mid-Am, but doubt I will seriously contend. The course just doesn't fit my eye off the tee, darn it.

More later....