Cink DQ - new rule - leave the bunker unraked or walk back 200 yards

[Michael Moore]

Pardon me if I have the facts wrong while I go all David Schmidt here. It seems that Stewart Cink was standing in a fairway bunker, hit a ball lying outside of the bunker 180 yards downrange into a greenside bunker, and was supposed to dock himself two strokes under new rules regarding the testing of a hazard because his caddie raked the bunker.

So if I am caddieless in a tournament, I can either leave the bunker unraked or stroll back to it after I have extricated myself from the catbox. Best case scenario, I have a caddie, he hands me a couple of wedges and a putter, and hangs back waiting for my hand signals indicating that it's OK to test the hazard, errrr, rake the bunker.

I am all for law and order, but this anti-loophole is insane.

[JWL]

Someone didn't think this rule through.
Penalizing a player for being courteous goes against the spirit of the game, imho.
I suspect this will be changed asap.

[James Bennett]

The conditioning of the bunker must be outstanding.  To have the same playing consistency over 200 yards of bunker is something that the TPC is probably proud of.

Well, there must be that sort of consistency if he is accused of 'testing the surface'. 

I can just see the caddies advice. 

'That bunker is a bit fluffier than I thought Stewart, be careful with your explosion shot.'

'Yeah, thats what I thought when I stepped into the bunker to play the hybrid approach' replies Stewart.

Cheater lines are ok, but raking a bunker 200 yards away isn't?  I hope this story is wrongly reported.

James B

[John Moore II]

Yes, I certainly can't see how this would be classified as testing the surface. There is no way the bunkers are that consistent.

[Pete_Pittock]

Someone else could have raked the bunker. There won't be any changes for two years at the least if they work with the decisions.

[Will Wittman]

This reminds me of what happened to ryuji imada at bayhill (i think).  John daly missed his tee time for the pro/am and imada who was his alternate was not at the course. He was disqualified and unable to play in the tournament.

But every sport has its dumb unknown rule such as the tuck rule in football

[Kyle Harris]

How is this any different if the ball lie in the fairway bunker and the caddy raked it?

[mike_beene]

I missed this.Was it because it was the same bunker?

[JohnV]

This has nothing to do with a new rule.  It was the rule last year as well.  I don't know who it was, but a player at the Senior Open was penalized for the same thing.

I believe there will be a change, but since it happened so late in the Rules cycle last year, it didn't make it in to the 2008 rules.  There is always concern when something like this comes up in that the cure may be worse than the ailment.

If this ever happens to you and you don't have a caddie, point it out to another player (not your partner in a four-ball or foursome) and leave.  Hopefully he will rake it for you.

Kyle, it is different because the third exception to Rule 13-4 says that once you've hit a shot from a bunker, you can do anything in that bunker without concern under Rule 13-4.  But, if you were just standing in it, you can't.

[Pete_Pittock]

I have not seen any TV footage of the incident.
   Appparently Cink's ball was close to, but not in, a fairway bunker. His stance was in the bunker. His shot ended up in a greenside bunker. His caddy then raked Stuart's footprints (in a bunker), while his ball was in a similar bunker.
   

[JohnV]

I have not seen any TV footage of the incident.
   Appparently Cink's ball was close to, but not in, a fairway bunker. His stance was in the bunker. His shot ended up in a greenside bunker. His caddy then raked Stuart's footprints (in a bunker), while his ball was in a similar bunker.

Similar hazard.  All bunkers are similar just as all water hazards are similar in the rules.

A tour official said it was a new USGA ruling.  This is because it happened last year.  It has always been the rule, just that a lot of people didn't realize it.

[mike_beene]

Was the act of standing in the bunker not testing it because it was reasonable to stand there to make the shot?What if the second shot hits green,caddie rakes ,and then Cink putts ball in bunker?Or,would finishing hole make it ok to rake,or does this carry to next hole?

[Tony_Chapman]

If I understand correctly, if Cink had hit his approach from the bunker to the greenside bunker, he would have been ok to rake. But, since he was playing a shot outside the bunker (but standing in it), he was deemed to have tested the surface for his next shot by raking the bunker.

I guess it makes sense if that's the case. He should have just had a playing partner's caddie rake the fairway bunker and he would have been good.

[Jason Connor]

Was the act of standing in the bunker not testing it because it was reasonable to stand there to make the shot?What if the second shot hits green,caddie rakes ,and then Cink putts ball in bunker?Or,would finishing hole make it ok to rake,or does this carry to next hole?

I assume he was allowed to stand there because his ball wasn't in a bunker so he wasn't "testing the bunker." 

His caddy was testing the bunker because when his caddy was raking Cink's ball was in a bunker.

I supposed the key is hit the shot and rake the bunker before the ball lands in another hazard.

I didn't see this. Did Cink know what he did was a penalty?  Or did he have to be told?

[JohnV]

Tony,

You have it correct.

Jason,

Obviously Cink did not know the rule as he didn't give himself a penalty and was DQ'ed for signing for a score that did not include the penalty.

[Michael Moore]

I didn't see this. Did Cink know what he did was a penalty?  Or did he have to be told?

Cink was having breakfast with Zach Johnson this morning and they were discussing rules minutiae. Johnson mentioned the aforementioned situation, and Cink was like "excuse me for a moment, I have to go disqualify myself."

P.S. - If this happens to me at the Maine Am qualifier, I'll get Mom to rake the damn thing . . .

[Jason Connor]

WOW!  That's absurd.  Why the heck can't the USGA make a middle-of-the-season declaration or clarification here?

Obviously that's not the intent.

[Art Roselle]

I saw Sergio hit a shot from a greenside bunker somewhere (Sawgrass maybe) and he hit it past the pin, out of his line of view.  He took a couple of practice swings and then climbed out of the bunker.   It turned out that his ball had rolled over the green into a bunker, which was in fact, the same bunker, because it wrapped all the way around the green.  So, he got a penalty for grounding his club or testing the surface or whatever.

When I heard the Cink rule, I thought it was a similar situation, but it sounds like it was a different bunker and a somewhat different rule.  That is a very strange rule, in my opinion.  I hope it is changed.

[Mike Benham]

... while someone else smoothing those exact same footprints after you've actually hit the shot IS....

[Kyle Harris]

Can I walk through a bunker while my ball lay in another bunker without penalty?

[RJ_Daley]

It seems one can think of a bunch of variations of these chain of events that would come up with a similar bizarre rule infraction. 

What about if in the last group of the day in the tournament you find your approach shot in the greenside bunker, blast out and rake it, go on to make your putt for an up and down to tie a fellow competitor for the win.  So, you are both sent back to the same tee to play a sudden death.  You hit your approach shot in the same bunker basically the same shot you hit in regulation.  Your ball is basically in the same general area where you just played your great up and down 10 minutes earlier, to tie and send it to sudden death.  Didn't you already test that bunker with an actual shot minutes before? 

If a guy is having an off day and hitting a lot of bunkers, you've essentially been testing the sand all day.

this is just stupid X 3.14159Xr-squared 

[Pete_Pittock]

Cousin RJ,

  Another scheme is when your ball stops on a grass island within the bunker. Your shot ends up in the bunker or another bunker. You, or anyone on your side, cannot rake out without penalty. Ask someone else.
  There is no penalty in your scenario.
  One might consider Decision 13-2/29.3 as a vehicle to rule in equity, but it may be too far a stretch. That allows a player to smooth footprints he created in his line of play when it was necessary to retrieve their ball.

[JohnV]

Can I walk through a bunker while my ball lay in another bunker without penalty?

Sure, just don't rake it behind you.

[JohnV]

It seems one can think of a bunch of variations of these chain of events that would come up with a similar bizarre rule infraction. 

The point is you can't rake a bunker if you didn't hit a shot from it and your ball is in another bunker at that moment in time.

Any other scenario you can come up with is no penalty.

[Jon Wiggett]

I think you will find that part of the problem, as far as the rules is concerned, is that Cink's ball was not in the bunker. Had it have been then he would have been able to rake the bunker after playing the shot. Having said that I would be all in favour of a no bunker raking rule, well for the tour atleast.