What is so fab about tobacco road?

[Darren deMaille]

I don't get it.  Someone please explain.  It seems to me that it is all college intern hype.  I have played there many times but don't see the greatness. 

[Ryan Farrow]

Being a college kid, I take offense to your critique, epically since you offer no rebuttal. But seeing pictures of Mike Strantz's work and particularly his work at Tobacco Road, I must say, it  has been one of the most influential experiences for me when I was first tinkering with the idea of pursuing golf course architecture. Strantz was completely different from everything I had ever known (which was not much at the time) and that alone, was, and still is, good enough for me. I look forward to actually seeing and playing his courses in person a few months from now, so I'll get back to you later on some specifics.

[Mike Erdmann]

Darren, I haven't played Tobacco Road so can't comment on it.  What in particular don't you like about the course?

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Ryan-

Give him a break, he's just old.
I've been fortunate to play Tobacco alot in the past few years. There are some things I like about Tobacco, and some things I don't like about it.

I've said a few times here that I feel that some of the greens are a bit over the top, and provide for limited hole locations.

I have also argued in its defense with Chip Gaskins, regarding the first tee shot, and the approach shot to number 9. Chip if you remember what I  said, I am still waiting to hear back from you on that.

Overall I like Tobacco Road, but do think its hyped up. I think this is because its a good golf course that is relatively inexpensive  with easy access in an area thats overpriced, and some harder access to better courses.

[Darren deMaille]

Ryan, i did not mean to offend you, but a lot of pgmers play there and don't get it.  I think it comes with experience, which most college kids dont' have, but because of the program they are in think they do.  As i have been down that road.  To me good architecture allows for creativity and i think tabacco road is forced golf.  

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Ryan, i did not mean to offend you, but a lot of pgmers play there and don't get it.  I think it comes with experience, which most college kids dont' have, but because of the program they are in think they do.  As i have been down that road.  To me good architecture allows for creativity and i think tabacco road is forced golf. 

woa woa woa now, give me a break double D.

First of all the reason Tobacco Road has the reputation it does, is it not because of Professional Golf Management students who play there for free  every once in awhile. It's a destination golf course that gets the majority of its round from vistors of the area and has developed its reputation from that play.

If anything Tobacco Road is creative, and yes Tobacco Road does not reside on an island  that was formed by a glacier , so somethings were made up.

[Darren deMaille]

Mike, use your words carefully.  I do agree that if it were not for the pulled pork sandwiches and inexpensive rates, the fire department would not respond to any alarms.  

[Chip Gaskins]

Ryan-

Give him a break, he's just old.
I've been fortunate to play Tobacco alot in the past few years. There are some things I like about Tobacco, and some things I don't like about it.

I've said a few times here that I feel that some of the greens are a bit over the top, and provide for limited hole locations.

I have also argued in its defense with Chip Gaskins, regarding the first tee shot, and the approach shot to number 9. Chip if you remember what I  said, I am still waiting to hear back from you on that.

Overall I like Tobacco Road, but do think its hyped up. I think this is because its a good golf course that is relatively inexpensive  with easy access in an area thats overpriced, and some harder access to better courses.

you are correct, i forgot to defend.  i think you said you liked the approach to the 9th, no?  i just thought it was too severe uphill even for a short iron.  hey, i can be convinced otherwise, i love tobacco road, but i don't buy the idea the ball can be "run in from the left"  remember you are hitting straight up hill with a lofty club, those two don't lend themselves to running the ball.

thanks for the reminder

[Darren deMaille]

Mike, i think you mean butt-hole trap not destination course.  

[Chip Gaskins]

Mike, use your words carefully.  I do agree that if it were not for the pulled pork sandwiches and inexpensive rates, the fire department would not respond to any alarms. 

do you have any specific issues you would like to highlight?

[M. Shea Sweeney]

double d-

please explain what you mean by 'Forced Golf'--

[Darren deMaille]

Forced golf is where you have one option.  Manufacturing different shots is when golf is at it's best. 

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Double D-


Can you give some examples of these forced shots?

[Chip Gaskins]

Forced golf is where you have one option.  Manufacturing different shots is when golf is at it's best. 

my lord, TR may offer the golfer more options than any course i have played. 

are you serious. 

there are so many risk / reward holes out there.  there is an obvious safe route and there are several risky routes.  there might be 4 different ways to play #1, #4, #5, #11, and #13.

[Bob_Huntley]

Darren,

I have played many a course that,  on the face of it,  a player  has but one option. On  a thorough examination there is always an alternative but it is one that most players would avoid. Taking two short irons and then a third across a ravine, that sort of stuff. The one really awful hole where there is only one way to play it,  is the 17th at Sawgrass, the most ghastly hole in the pantheon of truly rotten holes.

Bob

[Darren deMaille]

Chip it is obvious you will never win a golf tournament with that approach.  Tournament golf is about percentage, not risk reward. 

[Chip Gaskins]

i am not trying to win a golf tournament, i am trying to give a deserving course its due. 

of course i understand risk reward...i was 3 under with 3 to play, around TR only to choke my guts out.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Darren,

With what approach? I believe all Chip was trying to convey was that Tobacco is not "forced golf." 

Can you give us any examples of "Forced Golf" at Tobacco Road?

[Darren deMaille]

Bob, my thoughts exactly.  To navigate your way around TR responsibly, not(recklessly) is forced.  Something most college students need to learn.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

double d,

I think its past your bed time, and the late hour maybe getting to your brain.

Paging Dr. Katz...

[RSLivingston_III]

Regarding risk/reward, I have the feeling many here are defining it differently than I learned it.
I welcome clarification.
My understanding was there were only two options in R/R, lay up or carry a hazard.
If there are more options it becomes strategic.

If TR has lots of shots options, is it not then a strategic course?

I do hope to see it for myself in May.

[Jesse Jones]

Darren,

Is that all you got?
Come on, please you MUST have more to say.
You started this thread and all you have for us is college kids, pulled pork and forced golf..
Hmmm.

[Darren deMaille]

Mike what hole isn't?  The goal of playing golf is to maximize your score.  TR is a crap shoot.  But your too young to gamble.  

[Darren deMaille]

Jesse, nobody has yet to tell me what is so great about the place.  I had no intention to knock it.  It just seems to me that so much attention is given to this place.  Why?  Obviously you have never had the pulled pork. 

[M. Shea Sweeney]

 Darren-

 

Jesse, nobody has yet to tell me what is so great about the place.  I had no intention to knock it.  It just seems to me that so much attention is given to this place.  Why?  Obviously you have never had the pulled pork. 

Refer back to my first 2 posts.

 

Mike what hole isn't?  The goal of playing golf is to maximize your score.  TR is a crap shoot.  But your too young to gamble. 

Review holes 4 and 5 for starters.

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