[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Did you ever play a hole and walk away thinking that something about the hole was counter intuitive ?

The 5th hole at Adios comes to mind.

It's a par 4 dogleg left around water.

But, the optimal angle of attack to the green is from a point about 180 yards off the tee.

Golfers who hit driver straight, into the fairway are faced with a green that sits diagonally, with bunkers front and rear with water left.  Yet the golfer hitting driver faces a riskier shot off the tee, contending with water left and OB right, whereas the golfer hitting a medium to long iron off the tee are relatively insulated from those two fates.

Yet, they are rewarded with an ideal angle of attack into the green, with the bunkers flanking the green left and right, with the green rising toward them from front to back.

Whereas, the angle of attack into the green from the middle of the fairway at driver distance is awkward at best.

Should a golfer who hits the riskier driver be rewarded with a prefered angle of attack into the green ?  Or penalized, as he is in this situation ?

How would the first time golfer know this ?

Was this a design faux pax or was it deliberate ?

A look at Google Earth will help you understand the design.
The hole is the one in the upper right hand corner of the golf course.
It's in Coconut Creek, FL, between Boca Raton and Deerfield, right next to the Florida Turnpike.

[cary lichtenstein]

Lots of times, and usually it is to accomocate housing

[Adam Clayman]

Pat, If the best way to play the hole is the way you describe, medium iron off the tee, and a majority of golfer's ignore the strategy by playing their driver, I don't see how it's the holes (designer) fault. Wasn't that a Joe Lee design? I played it back in late 85'  and do not remember anything (not one hole) except for the locker room and clubhouse. I do have as excuse that it was the weekend the Bears came to town for the Monday night game, and your golden domers played on Saturday.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Sometimes when a hole seems shoehorned in it feels a little awkward.  the Par three ninth at Crystal Downs feels that way to me.  And yes I know the apocryphal story about forgetting to design one hole.

Royal New Kent has a beaut.  18 is really wrong with it island green.  I not only don't think it is a good hole but is so out of step with the rest of the course as to be an aberration. 

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Pat, If the best way to play the hole is the way you describe, medium iron off the tee, and a majority of golfer's ignore the strategy by playing their driver, I don't see how it's the holes (designer) fault.

I didn't say that that was the "best" way to play the hole.
I stated that the prefered angle of attack was from that location.
And, it's probably a 5-7-iron to get there.[/color]

Wasn't that a Joe Lee design?

No, Palmer's design company did it, probably Ed Seay.[/color]

I played it back in late 85'  and do not remember anything (not one hole) except for the locker room and clubhouse. I do have as excuse that it was the weekend the Bears came to town for the Monday night game, and your golden domers played on Saturday.

Take a look at Google Earth.
It presents a good view of the hole.[/color]

[Tommy Williamsen]

Sometimes the last hole doesn't work just because they have to get back to the clubhouse.  18 at The Creek Club (Long Island) comes to mind.  It just is a long slog uphill to a pretty tough green, however.  If the green were that good it would be a waste.

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Sometimes the last hole doesn't work just because they have to get back to the clubhouse.  18 at The Creek Club (Long Island) comes to mind.  It just is a long slog uphill to a pretty tough green, however.  If the green were that good it would be a waste.

Tommy,

You can't critique that hole without contexting it in the year it was built.
It was probably a good challenge in its day.

[TEPaul]

TommyW:

The 18th at The Creek is likely to get more interesting hopefully in the next year or so. The club is also mulling over the possiblility of ridding the course of any of the detrimental changes that Philadelphia crumb-bum William Flynn did to the golf course long ago.

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