[Mike_Cirba]

is simply, that they push architectural related threads off the front page and almost always, forever into oblivion.

As I view the first page right now, nearly 1/3 of the threads are OT, even if some haven't been marked as such.   

I realize there are some "club" aspects to this site, but to me that seems pretty excessive.

Perhaps it's just been a long winter.

[Bill_McBride]

Including this one?

[John Kavanaugh]

Perhaps the internet and golf achitecture attract people who do not have friends in the real world where they can discuss Tiger and cars.  Once again I offer my services as moderator and promise to clean this place up.

[Mike_Cirba]

Including this one?

Yep! 

I'm hoping for a quick, painless death here, but in my heart of hearts, I'm pretty convinced it will be slow and agonizing.   

[Dave_Miller]

Including this one?

Yep! 

I'm hoping for a quick, painless death here, but in my heart of hearts, I'm pretty convinced it will be slow and agonizing.   

Mike:
You should know better.  Just don't read them and check pages 2 and 3 regularly.
Best
Dave

[Mike Sweeney]

Mike C,

Said with love but are you part of the problem or part of the solution? 

There are not many new courses being built, the stock and housing market sucks so we can't afford to play the courses we love anymore BUT The Masters is a few weeks away and all will be well.

Lou Duran,

In the immortal words of Ronald Reagan, "There you go again!"   

When will you stop blaming the capitalists for all that is wrong in America?   Don't you, as the consumer, have the choice to 1) change the channel, 2) turn off the television, 3) do something more productive to contribute to our GDP than watching the boob tube, or 4) rope a steer or go our back and do some shooting practice, or 5) go to church and rail against this sinful nation from the other side of the Jeremiah Wright aisle?   

Why in God's name would you want the government to step-in and put up a strangle-hold, regulatory, bureaucratic, money-wasting barrier when a productive, well-meaning pharmaceutical company is merely trying to supply a critical need in our country and effectively stop their right of free speech?    Why should there be regulations to tell them what, and where, and when they can execute that speech?   Isn't that the evil hand of Big Brother simply trying to drag us all down into the socialistic pit of "politically correct" speech where we can't say what we mean or even mean what we say?

I'm frankly shocked that you'd be sitting on the side of BIG government controls on this one, Lou.   Where's a rugged individualist to go in this country when he finds he can't rise to the occasion?    

PS. Welcome to the GCA Double Standard Club, Jaka is our moderator!

[George Pazin]

1) It's still winter for many of us

and

2) the bigger problem is that one tends to quickly lead to many. The occasional one isn't a problem at all.

[John Kavanaugh]

The inability of people on this site to come up with architectural threads propegates the myth that golf writers earn their pay.  btw...Isn't it about time for Cirba to bump his Godforsaken one attempt?  That monster almost makes me yearn for OT.

[Phil Benedict]

I've started a few OT threads but attempt to avoid the obvious ones (eg Tiger's latest triumph or real estate deal!)  On the other hand, if Tiger ever endorses an ED product I'll jump at the opportunity to start that thread. 

Everybody who uses this site has to sort through to find the threads that interest them.  The OT threads add to the clutter, but there are usually 1 0r 2 threads that maintain my interest.

[Brad Tufts]

At the expense of egging this on...maybe we should have a filter where a poster/member can toggle whether he wants to see OT threads or not?  As long as the OT threads always start with OT...

[Mike Sweeney]

The inability of people on this site to come up with architectural threads propegates the myth that golf writers earn their pay.  btw...Isn't it about time for Cirba to bump his Godforsaken one attempt?  That monster almost makes me yearn for OT.

This from the man that claimed Golfweek painted an ocean on the Ballyneal cover as his last Topic. Maybe you need to find an outlet beyond Brad and the Golfweek Raters. 

People in glass houses........

Oh wait we are not supposed to talk about houses either......

[Kalen Braley]

Mike,

Barney has already stated on several occasions that he IS the king of double standards.  So he probably finds no dilemma in both simulatenously ripping people for starting OT threads, and then usually becoming the most frequent poster on them. 

[Dan Kelly]

It's Ran's call, of course, but ...

Is there any good reason why -- in the interest of both gca-discussion purity and wider-ranging discussion -- GolfClubAtlas.com should not have SEPARATE areas, under "GolfClubAtlas Discussion Group," for "Golf Course Architecture" and "All Other Matters"?

That would remove the possibility that Off Topics would consign On Topics to oblivion.

Admittedly, I'm part of the "problem" -- and hoping to be part of the "solution."

Dan

[Joe Hancock]

Mike,

Barney has already stated on several occasions that he IS the king of double standards.  So he probably finds no dilemma in both simulatenously ripping people for starting OT threads, and then usually becoming the most frequent poster on them. 

Along those lines, I was going to comment that just because he is the KODS doesn't necessarily make him wrong.

Joe

[John Kavanaugh]

The inability of people on this site to come up with architectural threads propegates the myth that golf writers earn their pay.  btw...Isn't it about time for Cirba to bump his Godforsaken one attempt?  That monster almost makes me yearn for OT.

This from the man that claimed Golfweek painted an ocean on the Ballyneal cover as his last Topic. Maybe you need to find an outlet beyond Brad and the Golfweek Raters. 

People in glass houses........

Oh wait we are not supposed to talk about houses either......

The thread you mention was an interesting discussion on inland vs ocean side courses.  I think everyone who participated learned something and had a good time along the way.  I stand by my contention that the cover of Golfweek was photoshoped beyond the original photo in the name of once again talking down to a unpaying considered to be unworthy readership.

[Jason Connor]

Perhaps the internet and golf achitecture attract people who do not have friends in the real world where they can discuss Tiger and cars.  Once again I offer my services as moderator and promise to clean this place up.

I'm  a new guy who probably doesn't deserve an opinion.  But I think a moderator would be great.

I'll admit I've contributed to such threads, but it would be a better board if it were more focused.

Perhaps there could be two boards, one for OT (people make friends here and want to discuss other topics with their friends) and one for what we really come here for (GCA).  But maybe that's more work than the admins want to do which I'd understand.

I bet John K could run a tight ship!

[Mike Benham]

There are already moderators and one must assume they are moderating to the level of moderation that they feel is appropriate.

[Kalen Braley]

Jason,

As a newbie, you always deserve an opinion.

The suggestion to have the board broken down into seperate sections has been mentioned at least 2-3 hundred times...so I doubt this will be happen anytime soon.

As for J/K as moderator, well thats where more time on the site will give you a more informed perspective. Lets just say doing that would be about as good of a decision as Bill Clinton wagging his finger at the camera and saying "I never had sexual....." well you know how the rest goes.   

[Dan Kelly]

The suggestion to have the board broken down into seperate sections has been mentioned at least 2-3 hundred times...so I doubt this will be happen anytime soon.

Party pooper.

Keep fightin' the good fight, Jason! Maybe 400-500 times will get us to the tipping point.

[John Kavanaugh]

What makes you think that the same people who start OT threads now wouldn't do the same thing if the architectural side was getting the most attention. 

[Adam Clayman]

Doing a cursory search through about the last six pages, there's hardly one repeat offender (one who starts OT threads).
 That either means, the problem is not that bad, or Ben is doing his due diligence and removing them when they hit the second page.

I'm agin adding another category for OT threads because occasionally there's things to learn outside of golf.

My hope is that each person shows restraint in starting them. Perhaps choosing issues they are passionate about and want input or just sharing their experiences. BUT, for all that is sacred, PLEASE  do not post OT threads about Professional golf. 

[Mike Golden]

I personally think that any topic that even mentions Raters and how they affect golf is so far O/T it is ridiculous.  Of course, there is one certain 'member' who seems to think that raters have a major impact on golf course architecture. 

I'm sure each and every architect takes into account that there will be 'Raters' playing his course, possibly comped, and puts in specific features just to impress them.   I can hear the conversation now....'let's  put in a Redan, 54.3% of the Golf Week raters than will play here for free will give us props, and throw in a Cape, Alps, and a green with a bunker in the middle, that will get us a few more points.  Why we'll have this on the top 100 Modern within a year, by crackee..."

[John Kavanaugh]

I personally think that any topic that even mentions Raters and how they affect golf is so far O/T it is ridiculous.  Of course, there is one certain 'member' who seems to think that raters have a major impact on golf course architecture. 

I'm sure each and every architect takes into account that there will be 'Raters' playing his course, possibly comped, and puts in specific features just to impress them.   I can hear the conversation now....'let's  put in a Redan, 54.3% of the Golf Week raters than will play here for free will give us props, and throw in a Cape, Alps, and a green with a bunker in the middle, that will get us a few more points.  Why we'll have this on the top 100 Modern within a year, by crackee..."

You can not find a thread about rating that is not started by a rater.   Why would anyone design for raters now that you can simply hire their bosses as consultants?  At least the USGA does not recognize this current practice as evidenced by Whitten's omission from the 08 calendar.

[Lou_Duran]

Ain't this a rich one!

Maybe John Kavanaugh's charitable trust or foundation can fund programming like Amazon and Netlix have to provide each of the 1500 registered users his own personalized page with automated selection of threads based on past history or stated topic and/or poster preferences.

Or we can just press next page after scanning and not finding anything of interest in the current one.

Or if OTs are really a problem, the moderators can put the offendors on double secret probation under the threat of having posting priviliges terminated.

BTW, I like rater/rating threads.  Some of the best opinions on gca come from raters, particularly those who are couth but don't have great fear of retribution or a need to fall within the bell curve.  They tend to be the best travelled and look at golf from a much wider perspective.   

[Kyle Harris]

The problem with OT threads is that people think this is some sort of forum by which to post them.

For example. I read something very neat and decide "Hey, I'll share that with GCA," and it's patently off topic.

HORRIBLY WRONG.

This is a discussion group for golf architecture, nothing more. You joined this group to discuss that.

When you post an OT thread, it's like joining a golf course under the pretenses to play golf, but instead use the first hole for trap shooting.

Stop the the O/T drivel and spend your time contributing to golf architecture discussion or go spend time with your friends and family

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