[Jonathan Cummings]

With the recent discussions about Rock Creek and Yellowstone I'm thinking Montana has been "discovered".

In the lower 48 what region has the least respresentation in golf courses?

Two places come to my mind.  Western Wyoming and southeastern Oregon.

What are some others?

JC

[Kalen Braley]

Most of Nevada, Anywhere in Utah not near St. George, or Salt Lake city areas, the Eastern Parts of California....sensing a theme. There is nothing there.

Just like Western Wyoming, and Southeast Oregon.

[Scott Stambaugh]

Most of Nevada, Anywhere in Utah not near St. George, or Salt Lake city areas, the Eastern Parts of California....sensing a theme. There is nothing there.

Just like Western Wyoming, and Southeast Oregon.

You're right, there is nothing there- including people and water.

Two areas that intrigue me- Lake County, CA and Wallla Walla, WA.  All those new wineries tasting rooms are only open from 10-4...

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SS

[Dan Smoot]

With the recent discussions about Rock Creek and Yellowstone I'm thinking Montana has been "discovered".

In the lower 48 what region has the least respresentation in golf courses?

Two places come to my mind.  Western Wyoming and southeastern Oregon.

What are some others?

JC

There are some decent municipal courses in Southwest Wyoming that are comparable in quality to the SLC area.  The golf course in Rawlins, Rochelle Ranch, is really quite good and has the potential to be far better than that if they ever get the soil issues addressed.  I really am starting to wonder if a town the size of Rawlins has the means to overcome the problems.  The wind is always a factor.

However, since most towns in Wyoming only exist because of natural resources or because the UP railroad needed to replenish coal and water for the steam engines in 1860's - 1940's, there will never be a high density.  Similar story for most of Nevada and Utah.  Take away the Sandhills of Nebraska and the same could be said of that state as well.

[Garland Bayley]

With the recent discussions about Rock Creek and Yellowstone I'm thinking Montana has been "discovered".

In the lower 48 what region has the least respresentation in golf courses?

Two places come to my mind.  Western Wyoming and southeastern Oregon.

What are some others?

JC

Any major metropolitan area has the "least representation in golf courses". The rural areas typically have far more golf per capita than any major metropolitan area.

As for southeastern Oregon, several year ago I read about a retired postman (as I remember) that set his goal to play every course in the state. He took a book purporting to list all the courses in the state and began hitting all the small burgs in the eastern part of the state to play at the courses listed. What he found was that there were far more courses than were listed in the book.

[Adam Russell]

I'll throw my hat in the ring for southern Georgia and interior South Carolina, excluding the coasts. Just a huge void of ag. lands, with the only decent course being Kinderlou Forest in Valdosta. About a third of the state of Georgia, maybe half of South Carolina. For states deemed "golf destinations", these two areas are empty.

[TEPaul]

Maybe most of New Mexico.

I think it was Bill Coore who once asked me if I thought it was a really stupid idea to do a course in Truth of Consequences, New Mexico. That one really caught me by surprise particularly as I don't think I knew him that well at the time. I think I told him I didn't know whether I was smart enough to know whether it was a really stupid idea to do a course in Truth or Consequences, New Mexico. On some reflection, that might've been a mighty fine response!

[Jonathan Cummings]

Adam - central SC has Musgrove Mill and Greenville CC (both current/previous top 100s).

Kalen - you're right, northern Utah is another potential "last frontier".

Doak & clan told me a number of years ago that they considered (surprised me) Charlottesville/VA Piedmont as an area begging for a fine golf course.  They indicated that they tracked other areas of the US "in need".  Tom - do you guys still do that?

I know RGD had some feelers and interested parties in the Charlottsville area as did Kye Goalby (Bob's son) 10 years or so ago.  Neither projects panned out.  The only new one of merit along the Piedmont seems to be Creighton Farms.

JC 

[Adam Russell]

Jonathan- I might give you Musgrove in Clinton, but I have a lake house in Anderson, SC - Greenville CC is not in central SC. Its definitely in upstate SC. I'm a transplant from GA, but I think if you ask a few full-time SC residents on here they will back me up by saying both are considered upstate courses, not central. Clinton SC is on the same line as Anderson about 45 minutes from me. For  mapping purposes, let's say the area east of Aiken, west of Florence, clustered around Columbia- that's the dead zone.

[Jimmy Muratt]

Jonathan,

Interesting to hear your comments on Doak saying the Charlottesville area was in need of quality golf.  Living in C'ville, I wholeheartedly agree.  There have been a few good public courses open in the last couple of years with Spring Creek and Old Trail, but nothing of note in the private market.  The only decent private options around C'ville are Farmington and Keswick.  You have to get closer to Richmond and there is Kinloch, the Federal Club and some good public options. 

One private to note further down 81 about 2 hours from C'ville that has been discussed here is Lester George's new course, Ballyhack. 

[JSPayne]

Most of Nevada, Anywhere in Utah not near St. George, or Salt Lake city areas, the Eastern Parts of California....sensing a theme. There is nothing there.

Just like Western Wyoming, and Southeast Oregon.

You're right, there is nothing there- including people and water.

Two areas that intrigue me- Lake County, CA and Wallla Walla, WA.  All those new wineries tasting rooms are only open from 10-4...

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SS

Scott,

You may be interested to know that there was a thread a while back I believe (or maybe I just saw a news headline?) about groundwork being made for a new course, with winery and accomodations in Lake County, CA. My family has had a lakeside house up there forever and I love it, but unfortunately, the infastructure has not been built up much there, the "locals" don't strike me as the golfing type of people nor the most hosipitable, the area has a bit of a bad reputation (if you ask enough you can find out what for) and many complain that the lake, as a place of leisure, is undesirable because it tends to get a algae/kelp problem later in the summer.

All that aside, I still love it, and I'll keep going there as long as we have that house available. By the way, Hidden Valley Lake GC is not a bad little track. A bit quirky on some holes (i.e. super downhill, almost blind tee shot to a 90 degree dogleg), but enjoyable.

[Tom_Doak]

Jonathan:

In the past few years we have had more success in areas which DIDN'T need another new course ... like the Hamptons and East Lothian and Bandon, Oregon.

I do keep an informal list of places we'd like to build courses, but I also try to keep an open mind, because it's really mostly about a 200-acre parcel and a good 200 acres can show up nearly anywhere ... even in Clementon, NJ or Augusta, GA.

We were talking to somebody in Charlottesville a few years ago but they stopped pursuing the deal after 9/11.  Too bad; it's a beautiful place, on top of which Brian Slawnik went to school at UVA and would love to go back.

[Mark Arata]

I would vote for New Orleans, I would have loved to see one of the architects on this board get their hands on City Park and see what they could have done with it, it is huge piece of land that could be made into something great, but alas, it fell into the political muck here, and they seem to just be willing to accept status quo.......

Seriously, when TPC of Louisiana is considered one of the better courses in your area, you either need to quit the game or move........it is a horrid course, there are 2 good holes on it, 4 and 13 I believe, and the rest are really all the same, long, sand left, long, sand left, long, sand left........

English Turn is ok, and Metairie is very nice, Money Hill is my "home" course and I love it, but it isnt going to be in anyones top 100, and that is pretty much it.....having just come back from a place that had 8 courses on one piece of property better than most anything we have here, I got even more depressed than normal when flying back into this town.........

[tlavin]

I'm not sure about the premise, here.  Montana is a hell of a big state, so I'd still put it in the Last Frontier category with the other areas mentioned.

[Jason McNamara]

Jumping over the border from Montana, did anything ever happen in the Lloydminster area?  Supposedly some great dunes, but questions about a sufficient golfing base.  It was discussed here a couple years back, but I haven't seen anything lately.

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