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John Kavanaugh

Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« on: March 13, 2008, 10:16:25 AM »
Am I wrong or is Tim the son of Illinois great Dick Nugent of Killian and...fame?  Is he really a tall civil engineer?  How bout some back story on the guy?  What do you know or better yet...Tim, explain yourself and the direction you and your father are currently heading.

Chip Gaskins

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2008, 10:22:40 AM »
Maybe Ted's brother ;D

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2008, 10:29:20 AM »
John,

Well, you are often wrong, but Tim is Dick Nugent's son and has continued his practice after Dick has retired to AZ.  As I understand it, Dick only consults on an emeritus basis now.

I had the pleasure of being on a field crew with Tim as a pup so many years ago at Kemper Lakes.  He was just in high school then. I think he studied construction managment and learned the design side from his father, as did I.

I will let Tim take over from here.......take it away, Tim!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

John Kavanaugh

Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2008, 10:30:28 AM »
He is also co-designing a course in Houston, Texas with PGA Pro David Ogrin.  Say it ain't so...Another Illinois legend, what is it like to work with David Orgrin and what the hell has he been up to lately?

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2008, 10:33:16 AM »

the ing in co-designing is an ed for co-designed.
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Craig Van Egmond

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2008, 10:38:12 AM »

A little more info on Tim can be found here...

http://www.nugentgolf.com/staff1.htm


I believe the only Nugent course I have played is Koolau, both beautiful and brutal.
 

K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2008, 10:39:41 AM »
He is also co-designing a course in Houston, Texas with PGA Pro David Ogrin.  Say it ain't so...Another Illinois legend, what is it like to work with David Orgrin and what the hell has he been up to lately?

I will be playing there tomorrow.  I've always enjoyed the course (High Meadow Ranch Golf Club).

Tim Nugent

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2008, 11:10:23 AM »
John, Jeff has it correct.  I am the son of Dick Nugent and as such have been in the golf industry my whole life - 47 years.   In that time, I have been lucky to get to know many older and wiser gentlemen in the golf world who, if I wasn't Dick's son, would have never had the opportunity.

Yes, I did work with David Ogrin on the design of High Meadow Ranch in Houston in the late 90's (thanks Mike).  David is a very interesting, introspective guy with many creative ideas (maybe stemming from the fact that he was an English major at A&M).   He was on-site practically every week between tour events, more if he had a break. Although I was already doing solo designs, I agreed to help him from the technical side to produce his design and was honored when he credited me with the co-design.  I had a great time and learned much from David as to how an accomplished Tour Player sees a course.  I think we should see him shortly on the Champions Tour as he should be of age this year.

John, I post because many on this site are on the outside looking in and thought it would be nice to give some insight as to how we architrects/designers view or approach some of the topics the rest of GCAers post.  If this doesn't interst you, then you shouldn't care.  Or perhaps you already know everything there is to know in shich case - you shouldn't care.  

John, I read these posts because I like to see what the rest of the world has to say.  After all, no man operates very well in a vacuum.  As a sole practioner, this site and sites like it, serve to expand my horizions.  
Coasting is a downhill process

Sam Morrow

Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2008, 11:11:28 AM »
He is also co-designing a course in Houston, Texas with PGA Pro David Ogrin.  Say it ain't so...Another Illinois legend, what is it like to work with David Orgrin and what the hell has he been up to lately?

John,

I know Ogie well from his days in Houston, he is outside San Antonio doing a lot of work with junior golf and being a Dad, I do think he is getting close to the Champions Tour though. High Meadow Ranch is a wonderful golf course and I can imagine working with David would be fast-paced, just like being around him.

TEPaul

Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2008, 11:35:26 AM »
TimN:

Let me ask you something. Do you really care if John Kavanaugh cares who you are or not?  ;)

I know it may sound sort of counter-intuitive but one of the goals of some architects today just might be to design and built something with the hope and expectation that John Kavanaugh DOESN'T like it.

"Golf and architecture is a great big thing and there's plenty of room in it for everyone"
(The Big World Theory)  ;)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 11:39:14 AM by TEPaul »

tlavin

Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2008, 11:38:41 AM »
We were lucky enough to have Tim join us at our Chicago get-together a couple weeks ago.  His breadth of knowledge on golf course architecture and construction was a nice contrast to the collection of long-winded amateurs also in attendance.

Tim Nugent

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2008, 11:40:09 AM »
Sean, I would be remiss if I didn't echo your comments.  David is a great father and husband and is blessed with an angle for a wife - she actually asted as a surogate mother and David withdrew from a tour event he had a good shot at winning - he might have even been in the lead - to drive all night to be there when "the miracle baby" was born.  David, like me, grew up playing on a muni - Bonnie Brook, and caddied at Glen Flora.  And yes, it was fast paced - his mind never stops.  Say hi for me next time you see him.
Coasting is a downhill process

George Freeman

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2008, 11:43:22 AM »
Tim,

Under your profile on your website, it mentions that you got an MBA in Real Estate Development.  

Is that a Masters Degree in Real Estate Development, or an MBA with a Real Estate Development focus?  I ask b/c I have never heard of that type of MBA and it sounded interesting (I am in no way questioning the validity of the statement).  Where did you get your degree?

Thanks for letting us all pry!

George Freeman
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Tim Nugent

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2008, 12:16:11 PM »
George, it was an MBA with an emphasis on Real Estate Development.  At ASU, we had the option of several standard emphasises or the ability to create one with electives.  I was able to pull together classes like Urban Planning from the School of Architecture, Land Development  and Real Estate Development from the School of Engineering -Division of Construction, and Classes from Finance and the Master's in Tax program.
Coasting is a downhill process

RJ_Daley

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2008, 01:02:41 PM »
I've always enjoyed trying to follow the lineage that sprang forth from the R.B Harris followers of the 30-50s.   It is quite a 'school' of GCA,  It is the "Chicago School" despite the most recent generations not actually being educated in Illinois or working in or around the Chicago area (i.e. Rick Phelps raised in Colorado, and I believe schooled in TX(?) ) Someone should do a tree diagram with all the branches that find their roots with the core group that were protege's of Harris.

Tim was nice enough to give me some back channel IM inside info on the course he did here in Green Bay, The GBCC.  It is great that we have him participating, and that he has the kind of professional interest to give and take with this bunch of GCA.com hooligans.  As long as he and his architect brethern give us the benefit of their ideas, we should certainly give them our most candid opinions, and keep moving the ball forward.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

David Druzisky

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2008, 12:36:41 AM »
The fact that he went to Arizona Normal (ASU) completely discounts his credibility! ;D

Go Arizona!

Tim_Cronin

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2008, 01:03:14 AM »
Kudos to Tim Nugent and the rest of the group for being so civil, but I must say that this is the snottiest subject header I've ever seen on this site. Whatever happened to civility in golf?
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

John Kavanaugh

Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2008, 06:59:33 AM »
Sean, I would be remiss if I didn't echo your comments.  David is a great father and husband and is blessed with an angle for a wife - she actually asted as a surogate mother and David withdrew from a tour event he had a good shot at winning - he might have even been in the lead - to drive all night to be there when "the miracle baby" was born.  David, like me, grew up playing on a muni - Bonnie Brook, and caddied at Glen Flora.  And yes, it was fast paced - his mind never stops.  Say hi for me next time you see him.

Strange as it may sound, I had a season pass at Bonnie Brook from 84 - 88.  People who have never lived in Northern Illinois may not understand that you can not spit out the window of a car and not hit some Nugent work.  Even at that I didn't connect with your name until just a couple of days ago.  You are too tall and from too great a state to take offense by the title of this thread, none was intended.

John Kavanaugh

Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2008, 07:06:58 AM »
Tim,

I remember you once saying that if your Mother did not work outside the home when you were growing up you would have had difficulty financially.  This surprised me, despite knowing how difficult a profession you have chosen, because of the amount of work your father is associated with.  Could you tell us what years these may have been and compare the industry then to what it is today?

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2008, 08:22:53 AM »
John,

Cindy Nugent was a schoolteacher and I am sure that helped Dick out, esp. in the health insurance area. I don't think Killian's first wife ever worked, at least as near as I recall, so I don't think it was a requirement, but surely added to the quality of family life for the Nugents.

This probably ought to be a different thread, perhaps titled "the lifestyles of the not so rich and famous gca's."  Having worked with Killian and Nugent from 1977-1983 (at the break up) I can attest there were some lean times, but they always paid their bills (and more importantly to me, payroll!)

I recall going there to interview in 1972-3 while still in HS.  They had about six major projects going. By 1975 - after an oil crunch similar to the current one, they had very little.  At least that little was Kemper Lakes, which opened in 1978.  They really had no business hiring me, other than I had pestered them since age 12 or so, followed their program (LA degree, golf and landscape summer jobs) and they may have seen some potential and felt some obligation.  Staff in 1972 was I think, 6.  Staff never exceeded 4, plus occaisional summer kids after that.

Those staffing levels required at least one big project a year (new 18) and the rest of the time was filled in with Master Plans, smaller remodels, prelim planning for projects that never fly, and sometimes some special deals, like scorecard measuring and tree surveys (I still recall Bob O Link had just over 6000 trees)

I only bring it up because I am pretty sure that is fairly typical of the design biz then and now, to answer your question.  My little two man office is in about the same situation now.  About 1.5 18 hole courses, a few master plans, etc.  Tree surveys and measuring have been taken over by others in the fringes of the gc biz.  If you ask around, we are all a little thin in work right now, save the top five gca's maybe.

If you ask around a little further, you'll see that many in the biz - from gca's to photographers to contractors have actually taken on debt to stay in "glamorous" golf biz.  I spent the years 2003-2007 working off the borrowing against my credit line accumulated in the slowdown after 9/11.  Others had/have it much worse.  I used to say I was running a biz to "buy myself" an upper middle class job......now I drop the "upper!"

Somehow, I doubt K and N ever went into huge debt to keep the office going. That generation simply didn't work that way.  I could be wrong, as I never was privvy to financial info there.....
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2008, 08:28:19 AM »
BTW, slightly OT, but the same day Ted Robinson passed, a long time Chicagoland superintendent legend - Bob Williams - also passed away.  His son Bruce is super at LA CC now and was President of the GCSAA the year I was Prez of ASGCA.  He trained numerous other young supers in the Chicago area, much like Monroe Miller did in Wisconsin, or Quentin Johnson did down here in DFW. 

Bob was at Bob O Link and a long time K and N supporter and client.  I remember him well (he was pretty stern with us associates at KN but we learned the importance of accurate cost estimates with him) and my thoughts are with his family.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Allan Long

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2008, 10:26:59 AM »
The fact that he went to Arizona Normal (ASU) completely discounts his credibility! ;D

Go Arizona!

David,

I'm sure Tim is a very nice guy, so we won't hold it against him that he didn't go to the state's premier institute of higher learning. ;D

BEAR DOWN!
I don't know how I would ever have been able to look into the past with any degree of pleasure or enjoy the present with any degree of contentment if it had not been for the extraordinary influence the game of golf has had upon my welfare.
--C.B. Macdonald

RJ_Daley

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2008, 11:22:29 AM »
If he follows tradition, is Tim a lock for a future Prez of ASGCA?   ;) ;D 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2008, 12:04:57 PM »
If he follows tradition, is Tim a lock for a future Prez of ASGCA?   ;) ;D 8)

RJ,

I presume so, providing he is interested.  Because of his size, we drafted him as "Sargent at Arms" so he really kind of runs the group already! ;)
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tim Nugent

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Re: Who is Tim Nugent and why should we care?
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2008, 02:34:34 PM »
John, Jeff did a pretty good job  but I can fill in some blanks.  The wost of times was probably when the '72 Arab oil embargo hit and the only job was Sand Creek in Chesterton, Indiana for Bethleham Steel.  I think it was probably one of a handful if courses being built in the country.  Brent Wadsworth was the contractor and I think it was there only job too.  Without it, neither firm might have survived.  Being products of the Depression, Dick and Ken would not borrow as they likened it to "working for the bank".  They always made payroll even if they missed a check or 2.  They even had to take a couple of '72 Oldsmobiles in leau of cash from a client who couldn't pay but had a car dealership.
Jeff is correct, Eileen Killian didn't work but they had 5 kids and they were a bit younger than us.  My mother was teaching school when my dad was in the Navy - Korea interupted college for him - so that came before he ever got his first job with Robert Bruce Harris.  So it wouldn't be correct to assume that mom taught because she had to but some years it was a nice cushion to have and allowed Dick to be able to make sure payroll was met.

David D, remind me - when was the last time UofA won the Rose Bowl? Bad enough I have to put up with Bruce Charlton and Greg Nash.

Shevas, pertaining to Wilmette, surfice it to say that the course and range is on a little over a hundred acres (for the rest of you - flat as a pancake).  Back in the late 60's/early 70's, they decided they needed a practice range so a couple of holes were used for that and replaced with new holes.  I can only really attest to the work done after 1989 out there but since the new I redid #18 in conjunction with the new clubhouse some of the hole #'s aren't the same so I would need a bit more info.  I still have a couple of holes on the east side that  need some help - mostly for speed of play due to the high level of rounds played there.
Coasting is a downhill process