holston hills write-up

[Phil McDade]

I hadn't seen this yet promoted by Ran or Ben on the Discussion Board, but there is a very good write-up, with some great photos, on the "Courses by Country" section on Ross' Holston Hills. It highlights some of the work done by Tom Doak's Renaissance group on the course. I thought of particular interest is the notion that the course remains nearly intact from Ross's original design in part because it's on the poor side of town.

Anyone on the board played it and able to comment?

Link here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/holstonhills1.html

[Robert Kimball]

John Stiles should be able to help a little....

[Eric Smith]

Phil,

The 2008 date on the write-up is a little deceptive.  Ran's write up has been on there for some time.  It's my understanding that he recently updated the photos in the review with new photos sent to him by Ryan Blair, the golf course superintendent.

To answer your question, yes I've played it recently and it is excellent.  Even in February, the greens are diabolical if you find yourself above the hole .  Also, the recent bunker renovation by Renaissance really makes the place shine.

A good example of a course where ANGLES play an important role in the enjoyment of the round.

Go Vols

[Phil McDade]

Eric:

Thanks -- I knew many of the pictures were new, and couldn't recall whether some of the write-up had changed.

To my eyes, some of the bunkering looks very similar to the bunkering work done at Oakmont and recently highlighted in an updated GCA profile:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/oakmont1.html

[john_stiles]

The   'notion that the course remains nearly intact from Ross's original design in part because it's on the poor side of town'   gets somewhat to the point.

More to the point is 'a general lack of money through the years.'   The town of Knoxville has developed mostly to the west and north.   Although the development of the whole  Dolly Parton-Pigeon Forge area is easing towards the east Knoxville.

Frankly,  like many low key neighborhood private clubs today,   it is always a struggle to keep up and maintain what you have and keep going.  Core membership and golf comradery is great here.  Club is doing some very minor clubhouse work, only as needed, on basically a cash basis. Club has had good boards with respect to spending and management, but their hands are basically tied anyway.   Membership knows not to assume any great debt for much except the course due to circumstances.   Who knows what would happen if we had a waiting list with plenty of money in the bank.

Trees are stll being cut down, mostly for views across the course and enlarge natural areas.  Greens are excellent putting surfaces thanks to Ryan.

Still remains to cut down some trees behind 15th green to enhance architecture of a wonderful natural plateau hole, by cleaning up clutter of pines behind the green.

I'm a homer so I've mentioned only larger club dynamics and we'll leave course discussions at that.

Anyone........just drop an email if you would like to play.   Hosted a great fellow GCA nut this weekend. 

Oh yeah....GO Vols !!!!

[Mike Hendren]

Props to my people.

[Eric Smith]

golf in river town, bird's eye view

[Norbert P]

 I find it interesting in Eric's photo that there's plenty of unused property near the river. Considering the course was built in 1927, prior to environmental set-back restrictions, I wonder why Ross didn't bring the holes closer to the banks. Or was that land spared for housing speculation?

  The course looks wonderful in Ran's report, and I certainly don't want to be a fault finder, it just sort of popped out at me.

[john_stiles]

Thanks Eric.    

Pretty current photo though a number of pines in this photo are  NLE.

[Eric Smith]

Slag:
The photo doesn't show it, but the severity of the grade to the river would, I think, prohibit (good) golf holes.
Eric

[John Mayhugh]

Holston is indeed a lot of fun.  I want to post some more photos & hole descriptions, but will probably wait until the fairways recover from dormancy.  I actually joined HH on the strength of Ran's review and some discussion with some friends who had played there.  My first round there was my first as a member.

I won't get to play HH as often as I would like since I live in Louisville, 3+ hours away.  HH is the kind of course that would be a blast to play every day.  There is a lot of width, but you can really complicate your approach shots if you don't drive the ball well.  Fairway bunkers challenge you to position your approaches correctly.  The course really defends itself well around the greens.  Great contours & bunkering.  Eric's right - you don't want to be above the hole. 

Maybe Eric Smith, John Stiles, & I should get to work on a GCA outing there.

[john_stiles]

Slag,

The river in the photo is the Holston River.  The course was built in 1926-27 opening August 1, 1927, before the main channel and tributary dams were constructed by the Tennessee Valley Authority.  

On the Holston River, the Cherokee dam was built in 1941.  This area in question was flood plain in 1927 and quite often flooded at that.

The old farm property became the Holston Hills real estate development which was to include a golf course.    There were other routings considered with many holes over the hill, to the north of the course.  This routing looked very 'modern', with lots and houses to be built on each side of several fairways.  That routing was not selected and Ross' plan prevailed.

[Joey Smith]

I there is indeed enough interest in a GCA outing there.  I can help in arranging it.  Someone let me know. 

I have strong contacts there. 

Joey Smith

[Mike_Young]

Joey,
John Stiles is trying to meet some people from there

[Eric Smith]

 

[BCrosby]

You mean John Stiles has playing priviledges at Holston?

Re: Ross and water.

I don't know anything about the riverbanks in the picture above, but at Athens CC Ross had a very large lake in the middle of the property to work with. It's hard to imagine a routing that would make less use of the lake. It's clear that Ross routed the course to minimize its role.

I can't imagine a modern architect using so little of the available waterfront.

Bob

[David Neveux]

I played 36 about two month ago, during a little Tennessee trip from Lansing.  The year prior we played out there in a torrential downpour.  It was the old, "lemme see if the course is open?" Followed by we just drove 8 hours to get here, with all due respect we'd really like to play, walking isn't an issue.  Sure enough they let us play and we really enjoyed the place.  I would put HH up there with some of D. Ross's other courses I've encounter such at No. 2, Pine Needles, Oakland Hills, Franklin Hills, etc.  I still haven't made a par or better on the second hole out there!!!  The bunkers really do look / play great and the greens are a blast!!  I would echo thoughts on driving the ball, each additional round you learn a little something about where you should be trying to "drive" your ball. 

[David Druzisky]

I too came across the write up a while back and the photos really caught my eye. I was looking for some examples of bunker style for a club I am working on and Holston Hills is one I keep coming back to.
 
I may need to take a trip out there so I may be e-mailing you John!

DbD

[Brian Cenci]

I hadn't seen this yet promoted by Ran or Ben on the Discussion Board, but there is a very good write-up, with some great photos, on the "Courses by Country" section on Ross' Holston Hills. It highlights some of the work done by Tom Doak's Renaissance group on the course. I thought of particular interest is the notion that the course remains nearly intact from Ross's original design in part because it's on the poor side of town.

Anyone on the board played it and able to comment?

Link here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/holstonhills1.html

Phil,
     I've played 4 rounds out at Holston (all times with big Neveux from above) and it is my favorite Ross course.  I like it slightly better than Inverness, Franklin Hills and Pinehurst No. 2....and I like it a lot better than Oakland Hills.  There is such a great variety of holes out there and the use of the land with the types of shots it produces is great.  The bunkers are perfect.  I'm still trying to figure out hole #2 as well.  i'm thinking of playing it as a 3 shotter from the back tees.
     For those that haven't played Holston, you're missing out.  For all the Ross fans on this site I son't think your education is not complete without a few rounds out there.

-Brian

[Mike Hendren]

I'm still trying to figure out why Ross buried an elephant at the back right corner of the 17th green. 

Mike

[michael j fay]

I feel that Holston Hills is the best of Ross in the South inclusive of Pinehurst #2 and Seminole. I do not mean to denigrate either of the illustrious aforementioned but I think that Holston Hills reflects in much greater measure the work of Ross alone.

Pinehurst #2 is an enigma. It is very hard to say that the green complexes are what Ross intended, they may be, but I feel that the internal and external contours have been magnified for Championship play. The existence of chipping areas throughout the course do not reflect what I have seen on 246 other Ross courses. It has long been my contention that Mr. Ross, who was a Superintendent before becoming a designer would not have created these bail out areas, especially behind his greens.

Seminole is probably as good a routing as Ross ever produced but the fillpad and green areas are mostly very adept work done by Dick Wilson after a hurricane in 1948. Seminole remains my favorite of the significantly altered Ross courses.

Holston, on the other hand, is pure Ross. Pretty much everything you see in the ground is what you can find on the drawings. The use of the property coupled with the diabolical green contours makes Holston a stern test for players of every ability. The work done there by Renaissance Golf is very true to the original.

Holston may not be my favorite Ross course but it is certainly in the top three or four.

[RBlair]

Eric great to see you have had a chance to come out and play.  next time you are in the area let me know and maybe would could play a round.  Thanks for the kind words and the pic.  If I can get the server to upload a photo I was going to put an old photo of the course on there for you.  Of course I have all kinds of stuff like that.  I always read the threads, I just  rarely post anything.  good to hear from you.

[Eric Smith]

Well it's about time we smoked you out Ryan... 

Everyone, the previous poster is my friend and ex-next door neighbor Ryan (RBlair). He is the superintendent at Holston Hills.  He's posted today for like the first time in 5 years or something   Not surprising as he is a humble lad.

Please folks, don't let him get away!, ask him to share his thoughts on Donald Ross or what it's like maintaining a course like HH or how the tree removal is going...

Ryan, what's it been, 4, maybe 5 years since you first asked me to come out and see the course?  I never would've imagined I'd end up joining Holston when I moved to Cookeville, 100 miles away. So glad I did.  I'll definitely call you when coming up next time.

[Brian Cenci]

Eric great to see you have had a chance to come out and play.  next time you are in the area let me know and maybe would could play a round.  Thanks for the kind words and the pic.  If I can get the server to upload a photo I was going to put an old photo of the course on there for you.  Of course I have all kinds of stuff like that.  I always read the threads, I just  rarely post anything.  good to hear from you.

Ryan,
     Any plans to turn some of the massive tree areas into native grasses?

-Brian

[RBlair]

Brain

Over the past few years we have made some
great strides in converting bermuda areas over to fescues and natice type grasses.  The most difficult part of conversion here is getting rid of the bermuda grass to begin with.  We have had areas where we sprayed the grass multiply times and yet it still came back in the summer when the heat really picks up.

Currently we are working on converting a rather large area between our 10th and 18th holes.  All of the pines trees have been removed and we are going to be planting fescues.  It has really open up the view to the CLub when you are playing up the 18th hole and really made a drastic change when you are looking over the course from the Club house.

Anyways, the greens committe is very comitted to increasing the amount of native areas on the course

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