Golfweek's Ohio "Best Courses You Can Play" List

[Chris_Blakely]

In 2006 (or 2007) The Best of Ohio list was as follows:

Ohio

1. Longaberger, Nashport
2. Shaker Run, Lebanon
3. Boulder Creek, Streetsboro
4. Avalon G&CC (Avalon/Lakes), Warren
5. Hickory Hills, Grove
6. Aston, North Bend
7. Stonewater, Cleveland
8. Rattlesnake Ridge, Sundbury
9. Elk's Run, Batavia
10. Cooke's Creek, Columbus

In 2007, the list looks as follows:

Ohio
1. Longaberger, Nashport (m)
2. Shaker Run, Lebanon (m)
3. Boulder Creek, Streetsboro (m)
4. Avalon G&CC (Avalon Lakes), Warren (m)
5. Stonelick Hills, Batavia (m)
6. Aston Oaks, North Bend (m)
7. Stonewater, Cleveland (m)*
8. Elk’s Run, Batavia (m)
9. Cook’s Creek, Columbus (m)
10. Hickory Hills, Grove (m)*


First off, here is some of the good qualities: Boulder Creek, Stonelick Hills, and Cook's Creek are all good to very good courses and I can see them being on the list.  In a previous post last year, I chided Elks Run and Cooks Creek and after replaying them, I do not have a problem with them being on the list.  The addition of Stonelick Hills to the list improves the list.  Avalon Lakes appears to be deserving of being on the list.  I have not played, but people whom I play with speak highly of the course.

Now for the head scratchers:  Rattlesnake Run (private course listed on the 2007/2006 list) was replaced by Stonewater (or at least moved up) a private course outside of Cleveland.  Longaberger GC is still #1.  It is a decent Hills course that I do not dislike as much as others on this board, but I do not believe it is the BEST the state has to offer.  Aston Oaks does not belong on the list, but I think I know why it is on the list.  It is in the Cincinnati area which means it most likely gets played by more raters than some of Ohio's more deserving courses (the Nicklaus Group name most likely does not hurt).  Hickory Hills is the Jack Kidwell course they must have decide to put on the list (over Salt Fork and Mohican Hills, I am a little shocked).
If this list is going to be called the "best courses you can play," one needs to make a simple call to each course to confirm that they are still public or have some public access.

Here of some of the Ohio courses I would consider (at least by juxtaposition to several of the courses on the current list, I feel they are better or worthy of consideration):

Little Mountain CC (Concord, OH)- H&F course that could replace Stonewater.
Black Diamond GC (Millersburg, OH) - Barry Sarafin course on wild terrain that was the topic of a recent post by a rater that spoke highly of it.  I posted over a year ago before that post praising it.
The Quarry GC (Canton, OH) - Brian Huntley course that is most likely too new for the list, but if scooping the other magazines is the goal this course is top 10 in the state.
Auman Timbers GC (Dover, OH) - For wow factor alone of half of the holes, this course is a blast to play.  Some awkward routing issues on the back of the property may preclude it.
Deer Ridge GC (Bellville, OH) - Huntley course on very rolling terrain.
Salt Fork State Park GC (Lore City, OH)
Mohican Hills GC, Jeromesville, OH) Jack Kidwell courses that I would consider over Hickory Hills
Sleeply Hollow GC (Brecksville, OH) Very good Stanley Thompson course that used to be private and is now part of the Cleveland Park System golf courses.
Castle Shannon GC (Hopedale, OH) - very gold course on a rolling piece of property - conditions and location may preclude this one.
Blackmoor GC (Wintersville, OH) - Another very good John Robinson course in remote location.

Comparing the Ohio list to the Michigan one, I feel the Michigan is a much better list for the golfer looking to have a good idea of the top courses in the state.  What do others think of the Ohio list?

[Doug Ralston]

Couldn't agree more with Black Diamond. The location hurts it with the raters, but it is a very enjoyable course.

Gotta say I rate Aston Oaks higher than you. I know it is a development property with some close housing, but it has a huge enjoyment factor. By the way, Nicklaus HAS been there, and in fact played the 1st round there. But he could/would not finish #18. He said he did not want to set a course record on a public course that was unreachable except by another Pro. Fair man, that.

Sadly, you are very correct about the poor comparison of Ohio public golf courses to Michigan. I live in Cincinnati, and we are just beginning to attack the Michigan smorgasboard. It is awesome!

Because Ohio has rather poor publics, we play much more in Kentucky. Their publics exceed Ohio by a great margin! Indiana also has some good ones.

Isn't all that strange, when Ohio has so many great private courses?

Doug

[Chris_Blakely]

Doug,

I guess we will agree to disagree on Aston Oaks.  Nicklaus was there, but he did not design the course and it was not a Nicklaus signature course.  I forget the name of the designer for Nicklaus Group (it was not one of his sons).

I agree that Michigan public courses are a lot better than Ohio.

What I meant by my last two lines was that the Michigan list is a much better list for a person looking to get a good idea what the top courses in the state are (does it have its problems, yes - just not as much as the Ohio list does).  The Ohio list does not do that. 

As for the quality of Ohio public golf, I do not think it is that bad and if some of the other courses on the periphery or at least golfweek's periphery were included, the list would be better.  Also, I do not agree that Kentucky far and away exceeds Ohio's public golf.  Better yes, but substantially better, not so sure.

One of the things I noticed or gave more thought to after I posted was that 4 of the 10 courses are in the Cincy area making me wonder if it is easier for raters to see the courses in that area.

Chris

[Doug Ralston]

Chris;

Except with Aston Oaks, I agree. But that still does not stifle my amusement at GW's Michigan list. The obvious drop-ins and leave-outs based on favored/unfavored architects really is a wonder.

Timberstone, Shepard's Hollow, and Black Lake likely appear on every list not related to this site. Evil archi's!

I note that I get little response when I bring up my concept of favored/unfavored here. I choose to assume that is a concession.

Doug

[Chris_Blakely]

Doug,

I do not want this thread to turn to the Michigan thread, but I do not dislike all Hills courses.  As I have said before, Shepherd's Hollow (most of the 27) holes is a very good course and deserving of being on the list - most likely over Black Lake.  I have not played Timberstone.  My brother and I wanted to when we went to the U.P. the year Greywalls opened.  Cost and additinoal time to play / get over to Timberstone (it is a haul), did not allow us to get over there.

As for Hills in Ohio, Red Hawk is a very good Hills course.  It has been a couple of years, by Stone Ridge GC in Bowling Green is a solid Hills courseas well.  Neither of these courses are plagued by the problems that several others in the area (Maumee Bay and the Legacy) are.

Chris

[John Kavanaugh]

You guys should love this review of longaberger: http://thesandtrap.com/extras/courses/longaberger_golf_club_nashport_oh_review

[SB]

I haven't played a lot of golf in Ohio so I can't compare to others, but I have played Fowler's Mill outside Cleveland and thought it was fantastic.

[Doug Sobieski]

Chris:

I still can't figure out why Hickory Hills is on that list. As far as I know (I've played there quite a bit), they've always been private.

Doug

[Steve Lang]

  Can't believe they'd leave off Ottawa Park.. vintage 1899.. but then again I'm biased.. and its too short and tight for big hitting raters to like

Interesting to see Salt Fork State Park on the list.. haven't played there in 28 years but i still remember the walk..

[David Neveux]

Mr. Blakely,

Is there another Art Hills Red Hawk in Ohio?  Or are you thinking of Red Hawk here in Michigan--tawas, Mi??

[John Kavanaugh]

Am I missing something or is the Scarlet Course at Ohio State also missing?  I have lived my entire life no more than 160 miles from Ohio and never felt the state worth visiting for golf.  It wouldn't even be on the map if Nicklaus didn't make the state famous.  Not so long ago that man was loved so much that the very thought that he even played a course in Ohio would raise the courses status.

[Chris_Blakely]

Mr. Blakely,

Is there another Art Hills Red Hawk in Ohio?  Or are you thinking of Red Hawk here in Michigan--tawas, Mi??

Mr. Neveux,

I try to never confuse my courses or my states.  Red Hawk Run GC is a public course outside of Findlay, OH and is quite good.  Semi Hilly if I remember, nice use of greenside bunkering and cross bunkering.  I have not play Red Hawk GC in East Tawas, MI, but I do want to play based on other comments.

http://www.redhawkrun.com/golf/proto/redhawkrun/

Chris

[Steve Lang]

 

Folks need to understand the impact of glaciation on Ohio & Michigan golf..  Mich was left pretty much with sand and Ohio with clay..  especially in the northern half of the state.. not a whole lot of topography in northwest ohio heading into mich and Lake Erie till you get east to Cleveburgh,  areas within the Ohio River Basin have a whole lot of movement and soil types (i.e., which were brought there from Canada and Mich!)..

How's your end morraine?

[Chris_Blakely]

Can't believe they'd leave off Ottawa Park.. vintage 1899.. but then again I'm biased.. and its too short and tight for big hitting raters to like

Interesting to see Salt Fork State Park on the list.. haven't played there in 28 years but i still remember the walk..

Please note that Salt Fork State Park GC is not on golfweek's list in either 2006 or 2008.  I recommended it as possibly adding to the list as a good Kidwell course.

Chris

[Steve Lang]

  ooops.. i like your list better

[David Neveux]

Mr. Blakely,

Thank you.  Red Hawk (tawas) is a solid golf course and certainly worth a play.  For those of you from Ohio, traveling from Michigan to play some public golf, what would your top 5 recommendations be??  

[Chris_Blakely]

Am I missing something or is the Scarlet Course at Ohio State also missing?  I have lived my entire life no more than 160 miles from Ohio and never felt the state worth visiting for golf.  It wouldn't even be on the map if Nicklaus didn't make the state famous.  Not so long ago that man was loved so much that the very thought that he even played a course in Ohio would raise the courses status.

The Scarlet Course falls under the same category as the Stadium Course at U of M.  The course is only availibe to the students, faculty and certain alumni.  I called several years ago before the underwent the Nicklaus renovation and asked to pay to play b/c I wanted to see the course before it was altered.  They did not have a problem.  I am not sure now after Nicklaus' work (not sure if demand to play is higher)

Chris

[Chris_Blakely]

ooops.. i like your list better

Thank you.  Salt Fork is a wild course and has some great views of the Salt Fork Reservoir. 

Please note that my list is not in any order.  I also do not get as caught up in coditions as other may.  I do not claim to know all the states well.  But, Ohio and some others in close proximety and out east are some of them.

[Chris_Blakely]

Chris:

I still can't figure out why Hickory Hills is on that list. As far as I know (I've played there quite a bit), they've always been private.

Doug

This course would fall under another one of the negatives for the 2008 list.  According to golflink.com and their website, the course is private.  There may have been a typographical error and they meant Hinkley Hills in Hinkley, OH.  However, since the course was on the 2006 list, I am guessing it is one of two private course on the 2008 list of "Best Courses You can Play" in Ohio.

Chris

[John Kavanaugh]

Am I missing something or is the Scarlet Course at Ohio State also missing?  I have lived my entire life no more than 160 miles from Ohio and never felt the state worth visiting for golf.  It wouldn't even be on the map if Nicklaus didn't make the state famous.  Not so long ago that man was loved so much that the very thought that he even played a course in Ohio would raise the courses status.

The Scarlet Course falls under the same category as the Stadium Course at U of M.  The course is only availibe to the students, faculty and certain alumni.  I called several years ago before the underwent the Nicklaus renovation and asked to pay to play b/c I wanted to see the course before it was altered.  They did not have a problem.  I am not sure now after Nicklaus' work (not sure if demand to play is higher)

Chris

I was surprised to see Yale also not on the can play list until I realized it would bump am ole favorite from #1 in the state.   

[Chris_Blakely]

Am I missing something or is the Scarlet Course at Ohio State also missing?  I have lived my entire life no more than 160 miles from Ohio and never felt the state worth visiting for golf.  It wouldn't even be on the map if Nicklaus didn't make the state famous.  Not so long ago that man was loved so much that the very thought that he even played a course in Ohio would raise the courses status.

The Scarlet Course falls under the same category as the Stadium Course at U of M.  The course is only availibe to the students, faculty and certain alumni.  I called several years ago before the underwent the Nicklaus renovation and asked to pay to play b/c I wanted to see the course before it was altered.  They did not have a problem.  I am not sure now after Nicklaus' work (not sure if demand to play is higher)

Chris

I was surprised to see Yale also not on the can play list until I realized it would bump am ole favorite from #1 in the state.   

I noticed that Taconic GC is no longer on the Massachusetts list.  I believe they still allow some outside play, but it is pricey.

I know I was able to get on to play Yale because I knew an employee at the University.

[Steve Lang]

  Do the buzzards still return to Hinkley?

One thing is nearly for sure.. there's  at least one hidden gem in almost every one of Ohio's 88 counties.. if you like to go out of the way for a good play..

[Doug Ralston]

Other comments:

I liked Players Club in Columbus better than Cook's Creek.

I note Eaglesticks is not listed. Neither is Little Mountain. Can that be right?

A private club in Columbus, I think called Long Hollow, has gone public as Tartan East. I have heard great things, but have not gotten there yet. This year, certain.

Doug

[Doug Ralston]

Do the buzzards still return to Hinkley?

One thing is nearly for sure.. there's  at least one hidden gem in almost every one of Ohio's 88 counties.. if you like to go out of the way for a good play..

Steve;

You are right.

Go SE of Columbus, in a small town of Logan. The Brass Ring surprised us as a fun little Kidwell, in old Country Club style.

Doug

[Evan Fleisher]

In 2006 (or 2007) The Best of Ohio list was as follows:

Ohio

1. Longaberger, Nashport
2. Shaker Run, Lebanon
3. Boulder Creek, Streetsboro
4. Avalon G&CC (Avalon/Lakes), Warren
5. Hickory Hills, Grove
6. Aston, North Bend
7. Stonewater, Cleveland
8. Rattlesnake Ridge, Sundbury
9. Elk's Run, Batavia
10. Cooke's Creek, Columbus

In 2007, the list looks as follows:

Ohio
1. Longaberger, Nashport (m)
2. Shaker Run, Lebanon (m)
3. Boulder Creek, Streetsboro (m)
4. Avalon G&CC (Avalon Lakes), Warren (m)
5. Stonelick Hills, Batavia (m)
6. Aston Oaks, North Bend (m)
7. Stonewater, Cleveland (m)*
8. Elk’s Run, Batavia (m)
9. Cook’s Creek, Columbus (m)
10. Hickory Hills, Grove (m)*


First off, here is some of the good qualities: Boulder Creek, Stonelick Hills, and Cook's Creek are all good to very good courses and I can see them being on the list.  In a previous post last year, I chided Elks Run and Cooks Creek and after replaying them, I do not have a problem with them being on the list.  The addition of Stonelick Hills to the list improves the list.  Avalon Lakes appears to be deserving of being on the list.  I have not played, but people whom I play with speak highly of the course.

Now for the head scratchers:  Rattlesnake Run (private course listed on the 2007/2006 list) was replaced by Stonewater (or at least moved up) a private course outside of Cleveland.  Longaberger GC is still #1.  It is a decent Hills course that I do not dislike as much as others on this board, but I do not believe it is the BEST the state has to offer.  Aston Oaks does not belong on the list, but I think I know why it is on the list.  It is in the Cincinnati area which means it most likely gets played by more raters than some of Ohio's more deserving courses (the Nicklaus Group name most likely does not hurt).  Hickory Hills is the Jack Kidwell course they must have decide to put on the list (over Salt Fork and Mohican Hills, I am a little shocked).
If this list is going to be called the "best courses you can play," one needs to make a simple call to each course to confirm that they are still public or have some public access.

Here of some of the Ohio courses I would consider (at least by juxtaposition to several of the courses on the current list, I feel they are better or worthy of consideration):

Little Mountain CC (Concord, OH)- H&F course that could replace Stonewater.
Black Diamond GC (Millersburg, OH) - Barry Sarafin course on wild terrain that was the topic of a recent post by a rater that spoke highly of it.  I posted over a year ago before that post praising it.
The Quarry GC (Canton, OH) - Brian Huntley course that is most likely too new for the list, but if scooping the other magazines is the goal this course is top 10 in the state.
Auman Timbers GC (Dover, OH) - For wow factor alone of half of the holes, this course is a blast to play.  Some awkward routing issues on the back of the property may preclude it.
Deer Ridge GC (Bellville, OH) - Huntley course on very rolling terrain.
Salt Fork State Park GC (Lore City, OH)
Mohican Hills GC, Jeromesville, OH) Jack Kidwell courses that I would consider over Hickory Hills
Sleeply Hollow GC (Brecksville, OH) Very good Stanley Thompson course that used to be private and is now part of the Cleveland Park System golf courses.
Castle Shannon GC (Hopedale, OH) - very gold course on a rolling piece of property - conditions and location may preclude this one.
Blackmoor GC (Wintersville, OH) - Another very good John Robinson course in remote location.

Comparing the Ohio list to the Michigan one, I feel the Michigan is a much better list for the golfer looking to have a good idea of the top courses in the state.  What do others think of the Ohio list?

Here is the updated list from 2008:

1. Longaberger, Nashport
2. Shaker Run, Lebanon
3. Stonelick Hills, Batavia
4. Boulder Creek, Streetsboro
5. Avalon G&CC (Avalon/Lakes), Warren
6. StoneWater, Cleveland
7. Cook's Creek, Columbus
8. Black Diamond, Millersburg*
9. Aston, North Bend
10. Rattlesnake Ridge, Sundbury

This past year (after playing Black Diamond for the first time) I asked Brad to place it on the GW list...looks like it got some play and I'm glad it ended up in these rankings.

As for a few others you listed above (that I've played)...I agree that the Quarry is an outstanding course with varied terrain and interesting par-and-a-half holes.  Sleepy Hollow is also a Cleveland area gem, but is in need of some TLC to get it where it really should be.

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