[Jim Thompson]

RE: The Mines

The Mines requires multiple plays before one can decide how to best navigate the terrain.  I like to think I'm a little more up to pace than the average rater type and I didn't get it 'til my third round out there.  Now that I do I really do enjoy the course for the most part.  The course does not provide the required eye candy that some would like which adds to the complexity or learning curve of figuring out how to play it.  Some "in the box" rater types will also struggle with the visibility provided of some of the putting surfaces.  All in all it is a great course to be a member at or to play on a regular basis as a public player.  That said the one time player could easily be frustrated due to lack of exposure to that type of design in Michigan.

Hope that helps,

JT

[Brian Cenci]

Jim,

I think maybe this summer we should get back out there, wait did I just hear someone press??

Mr. JohnH,

Eagle Eye is a must play, and as Brian and I live 5 miles from the course would be happy to meet anyone from GCA interested in a game!!

Mr. Ward,

I honestly forgot to get out to the Mines last year and it is very high on my list of places to see once the F'in SNOW MELTS .  The real question  is how will this course stack up to the likes of Kingsly and Greywalls??  I realize that it is a public venture, but those are the only other Mike Devries designs I have played (unless you count Pilgrims Run, but I can't get a straight answer on who / how it was formally designed.)

Mr. Arble,

High Pointe and Angels may be low key in terms of not being a resort style course per se, the game of golf you'll find is anything but low key!!  It's true that both sit on the cheaper end of the public golf spectrum here in Michigan.  These two courses symbolize whats both right and good about premier public access golf.  Great golf at an affordable price, hopefully that will help pull both of these courses through our statewide economic difficulties Jim mentioned earlier.  Other courses here in East Lansing which I think fit that mold as well are the aforementioned Eagle Eye, and College Fields.  It seems to me that one can get a game at the Mines in Grand Rapids for something like 35 USD. 

David

I do tend to go for very good, cheapish golf rather than great expensive, golf.

The pix I have seen of Eagle Eye don't entice me to visit very much.  What is about the course which attracts you?

Ciao

Sean,
     Eagle Eye is a unique course.  The back 9 is a great stretch of holes...11 thru 17.  The par 3's are terrific and some of the best group in the state.

The mix of holes are terrific between short par 4's (3, 6) and long par 4's (11, 13, 16).  9 and 18 are strong par 5's.

Eagle Eye is my benchmark course.  I think it's right around like a #50 for top public in U.S. and around #100 for top modern courses.  It provides me a great benchmark for playing other courses.

There was a lot of earth moved out there but the style and feel of the course is outstanding.  There isn't a better course within an hour in any direction.  It's very much a Pete Dye feel out there but the greens are expansive and a good mix.  It is a must play for Michigan.

-Brian

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

Appreciate the info on The Mines -- although a bit less on the fanfare tied to Bay Harbor.

Have to say this in having played a fair share of MI public courses over the years. There's no doubt the state has a ton of public courses and it blows away such states as New York and PA in terms of public to public.

However, with that said, MI, IMHO, has plenty of above average public courses but very few that would really stand out on a national level. Maybe the nature on how The Mines is created will change that focus provided, as was mentioned, people are capable in "seeing" what is really there.

[Chris Burgard]

Isn't #11 missing?

Doug

Doug,

I would bet that #11 is Black Lake and that its omission was a) intentional or b) a major Freudian Slip! 

[Jason Connor]

Last fall I visited Michigan and fell in love with the Mackenzie Course at Ann Arbor.

Why does it get no love?  The conditioning?

[Jim Thompson]

Last fall I visited Michigan and fell in love with the Mackenzie Course at Ann Arbor.

Why does it get no love?  The conditioning?

Jason,

1.  It is in ANN ARBOR
2.  It is tied to UM.

These two factors put it on the never play list for half of the state's popuplation.

This post brought to you by Michigan State University the university of Michigan.

[Sean_A]

Last fall I visited Michigan and fell in love with the Mackenzie Course at Ann Arbor.

Why does it get no love?  The conditioning?

The UofM course isn't public and it is usually rated top 25 in Michigan - though I believe it is better than that.  It is missing a critical rater favourite - wow factor on the course and in the clubhouse.  Some think the bunkering has been dumbed down, but this is a very minor aspect of the course and I am not sure the bunkers ever had much flair.  UofM is solid golf with 5 or 6 excellent holes. 

Ciao

[David Neveux]

Mr. Arble,

To add onto what Brian has already contributed in regards to Eagle Eye, it's one of those courses that really gets me excited to play every time I'm on the tee sheet.  That being said, the golf course is a Chris Lutzke design, who I believe does work under the Pete Dye flag (see their website for a complete background).  It looks / feels / and plays like a Dye design.  On your first couple go arounds out here you may feel a bit overwhelmed, their are a number of forced carries, a good amount of water generally running perpendicular to the hole, a couple of blind shots, well bunkered, with a good set of greens.  The par 3's are excellent IMHO, and as I said before the 17th TPC Sawgrass Stadium replica is probably my least favorite and still is a truly fun hole to play.  The 4 par's are also good.  The 8th hole is really the only hole I would call Bland.  The par 5's are strong as well.  I think Cenci hit the nail on the head when he said it's his "benchmark" course.  The truth is he borrowed that saying from me.  The course leaves you hanging on the edge of your seat, similar to lets say Tobbacco Road, which for me makes for exciting, interesting, bottomline FUN golf.  Eagle Eye offers plenty of variety from Tee to Green.  From large expansive bunkers, to smallish pot style bunkers.  The greens have plenty of contour, and when the greens are rolling fast (which is common) they are a handful.  I generally find that I hit nearly every club in my bag, and I also find that I hit a lot of different shots, and feel compelled to really try and work some of my shots to fit the shape of the holes.  As far as the artificial mounding goes, I like it.  The holes are bordered in many cases by large artificial mounds which are covered in knee high grass.  It allows for many of the holes to run parallel to one another without being distracted by other golfers and makes you / your group feel isolated as if you had the course to yourselves.  I would definitely recommend this course to anyone in the area, or traveling through the area.  85 dollar peak rates and 50 dollar twilight after 3 o'clock, Eagle Eye is high end public golf at a very reasonable rate.   

[David Neveux]

I forgot to add that the course is virtually treeless, and generally plays accordingly with a steady breeze.  Whenever I'm out at Timber Ridge or Walnut Hills and the winds blowing, I find myself wishing I was at Eagle Eye.  I believe it's generally a South, South-Westerly wind, Cenci???

[Steve Lang]

 

I can't believe 30 some comments and none about The Black Forest's position two notches above High Pointe... damm, I suppose they'll be raising prices this year!  as my summer vacation home course we'd been enjoying its recent improvements..

and Forest Dunes above Greywalls.. I'm not so sure about that value equation..

and Bay Harbor.. well, I don't think as Quarry holes go, I'd take those over San Antonio's Quarry holes.. were there rater stay and play packaging going on to include the Heather as well at #14.. though not better than at Treetops?

[Doug Ralston]

#11? Anyone know what #11 actually was?

Favored vrs un-Favored architects! I have seen quite a few lists of 'Best Michigan'; and this one is definitely more at variance. Guess whose courses are not rated this high in the others?

I admit I do not know the relationships well, like most here clearly do, but it seems pretty much like GW = GCA with a few variations.

Besides Timberstone and Shepard's Hollow, with their un-Favored architects, another that is often mentioned is 'Tribute' at Otsego. Anyone played that one? Thoughts?

Doug

[Jason Connor]

Last fall I visited Michigan and fell in love with the Mackenzie Course at Ann Arbor.

Why does it get no love?  The conditioning?

Jason,

1.  It is in ANN ARBOR
2.  It is tied to UM.

These two factors put it on the never play list for half of the state's popuplation.

This post brought to you by Michigan State University the university of Michigan.

Right. I know these two things.  I played both UM courses with an alum-friend. 

But many courses are off limits to many Michiganders (either because they're private or just expensive).  Given the number of Michigan grads in the state, I would figure if anyone wanted to play, they could find a way on.  Hell, I suspect buying a case for an undergrad would get you on! 

I just fell in love the the Mackenzie course. And as a rare pseudo-public (closer to public than Crystal Downs, CP, or Augusta) Mackenzie course, I'm surprised it's not discussed more.

[George Freeman]

another that is often mentioned is 'Tribute' at Otsego. Anyone played that one? Thoughts?

Doug

Doug,

I played the Tribute last fall and overall was pretty impressed with the course.  The course was built on very severe terrain; to get to the first tee requires a 5-10 min cart ride from the mountain-top club house down the ski slopes and through the forest (to grandmother's house we go).  If you've played the Tree-Tops courses, think even slightly more severe.  What this means is that the course is nearly un-walkable, unless you're a tri-athlete.  Throughout my round I was constantly thinking how tough a walk it would have been (long distances between greens and tees, which were usually uphill, climbing to the next elevated tee box).

As for the course, it is a pretty exhilarating play.  The course's website claims that "nearly every tee-box is elevated", and it would be hard to argue.  It is a pretty penalizing layout; if you miss the (usually fairly wide) fairways, you can kiss your ball goodbye 9 times out of 10.  A couple of the par 3s were pretty weak, but there were more than a fair share of "wow" holes, which is exactly what a resort course wants.  It is a truly exhausting round of golf, with few breaks within the round.

Overall, it was a fun round of golf.  However, I think after a few rounds, the vistas and "wow" factor would wear off, the severity would take its toll, and you be left with a little to be desired.  But I do think that the course serves its purpose well: to be exciting and memorable for resort guests that may only play the course once or twice a year.  

IMH I would think it could possibly sneak into the top 15 public ranking listed earlier in this thread, however that is only b/c I liked it equally if not more than all the tree-tops layouts (excluding 3-tops).  

Worth a round if you're in the area, however I wouldn't go too far out of my way to play this course again.

George

for some pics and a write-up, check:

http://michigan.twoguyswhogolf.com/reviews/otsegotribrev.html

[Sean_A]

Brian & David

Thanks for the reply concerning Eagle Eye.  The talk of all that water doesn't make it seem like EE is my sort of course.  Still, one never knows if he will be stuck in enemy territory with 5 hours to kill. 

Ciao

[JC Jones]

Brian and David -

Being that I live in Lansing, I cant figure out how we havent crossed paths before...

I'm obviously in on any GCA golf being played around town and I think we should take any out of town guests to the dome.  I dont think you can really say you are good at golf until you can hit a various flags hanging from the rafters at 75 yards away.  Plus, free clinics with Bruce, how could you want for anything more?

[Doug Ralston]

And #11 turned out to be ............ ?

Doug

[JohnH]

JC, Brian, and David,

If you'd like a change of scenery, come on down to the dome in Jackson.  At least there is an ugly Notre Dame flag to blister....

Regarding the water at Eagle Eye, it is free-flowing and natural, in my opinion.  Not over done.  Best set of par 3's anywhere.  The only gripe I have is the short four par #3 (?), with the mounding in front of the green offering a blind approach.  Sticks out like a sore thumb with the rest of the course -- just a minor gripe though.

[George Freeman]

John,

I think that is one of the better holes on the course!  It's a great short-drivable-risk/reward par 4 with pleny of options off the tee.  A little blindness thrown in here and there only adds to adventure!

[David Neveux]

Mr. Ralston,

It just finally hit me, the list I posted is incomplete!!  Where is number 11?  I don't have my issue handy at the moment, but maybe Cenci can look it up.  It's possible that I may have just labelled it incorectly and there are only 14 courses in total.  

Mr. Jones,

Our paths have probably crossed several times without our knowledge, especially at that godforsaken dome!!!  Never in my life have I been so excited to hit the range picker.  Certainly we should meet up for a round this spring / summer.  

John H,

Agreed with the thoughts regarding the water at Eagle Eye.  I have no gripe with the 3rd personally other than the difficult challenge presented on such a shortish par 4!!!  It maybe slightly out of character, but so is the push-up / table top green site on 15.  A notre dame flag to pepper?  That is priceless if we could only get a U of M flag and possibly a OSU flag at the dome in Lansing.....

[David Neveux]

George,

I have never driven the green on number 3, but have hit driver long / left several times.  Taking a line directly at the green is too risky for a ball stiker of my skill and many times ends up in the water lining the entire right side of the hole.  I however do enjoy this hole and think it fits. 

P.S. for those brave enough, if you can squeeze your tee ball into the very right hand side of the fairway, theres a small window of visibility to the green / pin.  Again a very risky play.

[Chris_Blakely]

The Correct Michigan list:

Michigan
1. Arcadia Bluffs, Arcadia (No. 27 m)
2. Forest Dunes, Roscommon (No. 92 m)
3. Tullymore, Stanwood (m)
4. Greywalls, Marquette (m)
5. Bay Harbor (Links/Quarry), Harbor Springs (m)
6. Angels Crossing, Vicksburg (m)*
7. Treetops North (Smith), Gaylord (m)
8. Wilderness Valley GC (Black Forest), Gaylord (m)
9. Lakewood Shores Resort (Gailes), Oscoda (m)
10. Black Lake, Onaway (m)
11. Treetops North (Fazio), Gaylord (m)
12. High Pointe, Traverse City (m)
13. Boyne Highlands (Heather), Harbor Springs (m)
14. Orchards, Washington (m)
15. Pilgrims Run, Grand Rapids (m)*

[Brian_Sleeman]

Isn't that the 2007 list Chris?  The 2008 listing doesn't appear to be up at Golfweek's website yet.

[Chris_Blakely]

Oops, you are right, the course that is missing is Black Lake.

[Doug Ralston]

David;

ROFL. I DID squeeze it in there. I should admit though, I tried to hit down the left side, but my golden slice manifested in spades! It went short but way right ..... and viola, the green was right in front of me. So I hit it right at the front pin ...... and it rolled back off the front into that little catch area. So I took a nice bogey from and 'ideal' drive. Fun hole!

What I liked about Eagle Eye was the architect's ideas. No hole seemed in any way similar to another. Being a very mediocre player, I saw a lot more of the course [as usual] than most people other than the architect ever see. I hope he feels appreciated.

Doug

[Eric Smith]

The only gripe I have is the short four par #3 (?), with the mounding in front of the green offering a blind approach.  Sticks out like a sore thumb with the rest of the course -- just a minor gripe though.

JohnH,

Is the short 4 you mention similar in design to this?

Long Cove Club No. 5 by Pete Dye

I'm guessing that Chris Lutzke designed the hole with influence by Pete Dye with influence by the Dell hole.  I believe this hole, (short 4 , blind approach over mounding) has been built on some of Pete's other courses as well.  There on Hilton Head Island, I think the mounding on this particular hole seems a bit out of scale with the rest of the course, but I really like playing it, it's a cool hole. 

I'm planning to see Eagle Eye next month.  I'll be staying with friends in Fenton for a week of good ole Michigan golf at Tyrone Hills, home of the hardest working junior golf instructor on the planet, JF Hamilton! 

Weather permitting, the four of us are driving over to Eagle Eye on April 2.   - - - JohnH, Brian, David, JC: Why not make it two foursomes?  Four 6-12 handicappers fresh off the plane and before a night at a casino.  It doesn't get any easier than us.  I'll admit that our best player is quite a bit more punishable, thus weakening our foursome's chances, after a day of suffering an intra-cart drubbing and the night's ensuing casino trainwreck  So we can't play you guys after Wednesday...

Another course JFH is taking us to is Hunter's Ridge.  Anyone played it?





 

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