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Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

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Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« on: March 06, 2008, 05:12:25 PM »
Let the games begin...
1.   (1) Sand Hills
2.   (2) Pac Dunes
3.   (3) Whistling Straits (Straits)
4.   (5) Friar’s Head
5.   (4) Pete Dye Golf Club
6.   (6) Bandon Dunes
7.   (9) Kinlock
8.   (10) The Golf Club
9.   (8 ) Shadow Creek
10.   (7) Muirfield Village
11.   (11) Honors Course
12.   (13) TPC at Sawgrass
13.   (43) Ballyneal
14.   (NR) Sebonack
15.   (28) Old Sandwich
16.   (14) Spyglass
17.   (NR) Chambers Bay
18.   (19) Kingley Club
19.   (18) Wade Hampton
20.   (16!!!) Kiawah Ocean
21.   (12) Bandon Trails
22.   (21) Calusa Pines
23.   (24) Dallas National
24.   (15) Wolf Run
25.   (22) Wild Horse
26.   (20) Desert Forest
27.   (26) Castle Pines
28.   (23) Blackwolf Run (River)
29.   (30) Dunes Club
30.   (25) World Woods (Pine Barrens)
31.   (44) Monterey Peninsula (Shore)
32.   (NR) Bayonne
33.   (29) Harbour Town
34.   (32) Galloway National
35.   (35) Mayacama
36.   (38) Briggs Ranch
37.   (31) Double Eagle
38.   (27) Arcadia Bluffs
39.   (33) Cuscowilla
40.   (34) Black Diamond (Quarry)
41.   (17) Sutton Bay
42.   (36) Karsten Creek
43.   (40) Paa-Ko Ridge
44.   (NR) Pronghorn (Fazio)
45.   (NR) Concession
46.   (39) Long Cove
47.   (37) Quail Hollow
48.   (46) Boston Golf Club
49.   (60) Forest Highlands (Canyon)
50.   (47) The Rim

Second half to follow... (see below)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 05:35:30 PM by Mike Vegis @ Kiawah »
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Chip Gaskins

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Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2008, 05:18:02 PM »
How in the world does Tobacco Road not make this list.  Amazing.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2008, 05:20:20 PM »
I know it's just a ranking, and the relative positions are fairly unimportant.

But I'm curious:  how many people here have seen the Pete Dye Golf Club?  And how many of those (besides Brad K.) really believe it's second to Whistling Straits (which I would never put #1) as his best work?

Also, it's interesting to note that the "top ten" of any system gets pretty entrenched.  I think it's a function of giving everybody a max of ten votes for the top ten (which score a full point higher than the second ten), combined with the peer pressure of knowing last year's results.
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John Moore II

Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2008, 05:24:43 PM »
I can see Tobacco Road not being on the list, maybe. It might actually be too odd for enough people to think its a good course. But am I seeing right that Victoria National is not on there? How can one be 22 in Golf Digest and not even on this list? Or maybe I am just not seeing it.
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Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2008, 05:30:32 PM »
Give thanks for this list.  It shows that golfis not dead (in America).

If you wanted to include GB&I  itwould be hard to come up with 5 courses that might make this list.


Kingsbarns
Loch Lomond
European Club


Chart Hills

erm


(maybe next year we'll have something to shout about.)
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Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Modern List (with last year's position)
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2008, 05:34:09 PM »
Here's the 2nd half of the list:

51.   (41) Sanctuary
52.   (55) The Preserve
53.   (50) Lost Dunes
54.   (53) Club at Black Rock
55.   (48) Victoria National
56.   (54) Black Sheep
57.   (84) Lahontan
58.   (52) Harvester
59.   (42) Olde Farm
60.   (51) Hawk’s Ridge
61.   (58) Eugene CC
62.   (62) Kapalua (Plantation)
63.   (49) Trump National
64.   (45) Hazeltine
65.   (65) Atlantic
66.   (63) Ocean Forest
67.   (NR) We-Ko-Pa (Saguaro)
68.   (57) Whisper Rock
69.   (68) Powder Horn
70.   (61) Shoal Creek
71.   (70) Southern Highlands
72.   (64) Pumpkin Ridge (Which Hollow)
73.   (85) Black Mesa
74.   (59) Butler National
75.   (71) Kiawah Cassique
76.   (76) Forest Creek (North)
77.   (81) Crooked Stick
78.   (94) Quintero
79.   (67) Links at North Dakota at Red Mike
80.   (78) Stone Canyon
81.   (73) Jupiter Hills
82.   (72) Sea Island (Seaside)
83.   (74) Oak Tree
84.   (92) Forest Dunes
85.   (66) Princeville (Prince)
86.   (89) Old Tabby
87.   (77) Hidden Creek
88.   (80) Flint Hills
89.   (56) Hawktree
90.   (90) Cascata
91.   (95) Secession
92.   (69) Crosswater at Sunriver
93.   (75) Crown Colony
94.   (87) Pronghorn (Nicklaus)
95.   (79) Musgrove Mill
96.   (82) Valhalla
97.   (91) Seven Canyons
98.   (86) Lake Las Vegas (SouthShore)
99.   (100) Rustic Canyon
100.   (98) Caledonia

Courses that fell out of top 100
(83) Vaquero
(88) Robert Trent Jones GC
(93) Huntsville
(96) Whisper Rock
(97) Lakota Canyon
(99) Bulle Rock
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Chip Gaskins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2008, 05:45:54 PM »
uhhhh....Tobacco Road not even in the top 100 modern courses...WTF.  these folks have rocks in their head.

No Dismal River, Colorado Golf Club, Erin Hills, Alotian, Nanea
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Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2008, 05:47:43 PM »
Quote from: Tony_Muldoon on March 06, 2008, 05:30:32 PM
Give thanks for this list.  It shows that golfis not dead (in America).

If you wanted to include GB&I  itwould be hard to come up with 5 courses that might make this list.


Kingsbarns
Loch Lomond
European Club


Chart Hills

erm


(maybe next year we'll have something to shout about.)

Indeed.  Next year should see The Castle course, Castle Stuart and The Renaissance.  I'm not sure things are so bad over here though.  The only one of these US courses I have played is Wolf Run, which I really enjoyed.  It's behind Loch Lomond and Kingsbarns though and if it's number 15 I reckon a couple of other UK courses would have a shout at top 100 - The Carrick at Loch Lomond, for one.
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David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Modern List (with last year's position)
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2008, 05:51:31 PM »
Quote from: Mike Vegis @ Kiawah on March 06, 2008, 05:34:09 PM

99.   (100) Rustic Canyon
 


Way too low.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2008, 05:58:32 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on March 06, 2008, 05:20:20 PM
I know it's just a ranking, and the relative positions are fairly unimportant.

But I'm curious:  how many people here have seen the Pete Dye Golf Club?  And how many of those (besides Brad K.) really believe it's second to Whistling Straits (which I would never put #1) as his best work?

Also, it's interesting to note that the "top ten" of any system gets pretty entrenched.  I think it's a function of giving everybody a max of ten votes for the top ten (which score a full point higher than the second ten), combined with the peer pressure of knowing last year's results.

I have played and loved the Pete Dye Club. I actually prefer it to Whistling Straits. Blackwolf Run (River) may be my favorite PD course, but I really liked PDGC.
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Mr Hurricane

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2008, 06:06:31 PM »
I am surprised there are as many desert courses on here as there are.....


Take the second 50, and I believe you could interchange any of the next 100 beyond that and be OK.

The only one I will continue not to believe is in there is Princeville. I will never get that one.
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John Moore II

Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2008, 06:10:06 PM »
Again, I can see Tobacco Road not on the list. Its just too odd for many tastes. But I think its interesting how much difference between this one and Golf Digest. Victoria and Butler are top 20 Golf Digest and middle of the list here. Strange.
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Tim Nugent

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Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2008, 06:20:49 PM »
Just goes to show - it's all VERY subjective.
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Cory Lewis

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Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2008, 06:25:19 PM »
The modern list changes every year, there is always some volitility.  I'm more interested in the classic list. Can somebody post that list?
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Chuck Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2008, 06:30:09 PM »
Was no one cynical enough to promote the face-lifted ANGC, Medinah, Scioto, or Oakland Hills, etc., as "modern" designs? ;D
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Tom Huckaby

Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2008, 06:35:36 PM »
Curious - does MPCC Dunes count as modern or classic?  If Shore is included and Dunes is omitted, then that is not good.  Otherwise the list looks fine to me.  None of these are ever perfect.

TH
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JMorgan

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Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »
Where is George Peper when you need him ... .
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Jason Connor

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Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2008, 06:44:29 PM »
Quote from: Chip Gaskins on March 06, 2008, 05:18:02 PM
How in the world does Tobacco Road not make this list.  Amazing.

My first reaction was "Where is the Strantz?"  (beyond MP), too.

And quickly reading the top 50 I didn't catch the Victoria omission, but I agree -- though I never had the pleasure while living in Indiana.


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We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

Doug Ralston

Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2008, 07:54:04 PM »
Yeah; who wouldn't put Shadow Creek ahead of The Honors?

*bonk*

Doug

Honors is best Dye?
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John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2008, 08:22:04 PM »
How about Kinloch moving from #9 to #7?  Kinloch only gets limited love from our site.  Kinloch is #29 on Golf Digest's top 100 list, but nowhere to be found on Golf Magazine's list.

Kinloch is a very good golf course, and the club possesses a special ambience found in few places.

Congratulations to Lester George.

 
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CJ Carder

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2008, 08:32:24 PM »
Anyone care to do a breakdown by architect?  I'd love to see the actual number of Fazio's on here.
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John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2008, 08:43:09 PM »
Bayonne debuts at #32.
Old Sammich moves from #28 to #15.
Sutton Bay moves from #17 to #41.
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Joel_Stewart

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Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2008, 08:58:44 PM »
Bandon Trails dropped quite a bit.  I think the 14th hole is catching up with the panelists.

Lahontan in Lake Tahoe took a huge leep forward from 84th to 57th.  A new drainage system must have improved the conditioning.

They don't identify which courses at Whisper Rock.  One dropped out of the top 100, does anyone know which one?
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Brad Klein

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Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2008, 09:03:29 PM »
CJC,
there's a chart in the GW issue breaking down the entire list by architects and number of classic/modern courses they have.

Jason Connor,
Caledonia at No. 100 is a Strantz course.

Chip Gaskins.
the problem with your list of courses that didn't make the top-100 Modern (and by the way, you left off Sandpines, as well as Torrey Pines-South, Fossil Trace and Tour 18) is that there is only room for 100. Your list includes courses that are all close or arguably of considerable merit, but simply not close enough. And that's because we're relying on the views of 450 raters, not one.

Joel Stewart,
please don't confuse Mike Vegis's volunteer secretarial skills with our list as published. We are quite clear in the magazine that Whisper Rock-Upper is in the top-100 and that Whisper Rock-Lower no longer is.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 09:09:38 PM by Brad Klein »
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Golfweek's Modern List (top 50 with last year's position)
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2008, 09:13:57 PM »
Desert courses - where's Stone Eagle? (not enough raters?) and why is Black Mesa so low?
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