[Kalen Braley]

There is no dilemma for me...it lies with those who slammed Whitten for thinking the land at Erin Hills was near perfect.  I think a lot of golf critics could learn something from days like this when golf architects die.  Give em all a break or just shut the hell up when it comes your turn to build one yourself.

John,

I think your reading something into this that isn't there.  Saying a site is one of the best 5 pieces of land ever, and saying a site is perfect for golf are two completely different things and not even comparable.

FWIW, I think Whitten earned the criticsm he received, but I see nothing of the sort for Brads remarks.

Anyways...in the words of Forrest Gump: "Thats all I have to say about that."

[Tom_Doak]

Tim:

I've said before that Pacific Dunes was probably one of the top 25 sites for a golf course ever, so if it didn't finish that high on the lists, I'd have screwed up.  But, there's a difference between that and implying that anybody could have done it.  I would have though you should understand the difference.

And to John K:  There's a big difference between my quote and Whitten's ... not just 20 places.

[Tim_Weiman]

John K:

Regarding the land at Bandon for the Old Macdonald course, I remember standing on Pacific Dunes 14th tee several years ago thinking that the land for what will now be the Old Macdonald wasn't going to be anything special.

However, recently I got a chance to walk the property with Tom and Jim Urbina (and a bit with Brad Klein and George Bahto). From up close I could see there was a lot more happening on the ground than I could see from far away.

I concur. When the gorse was taken away, some perfect ground for golf was revealed.

[Tim Nugent]

John, I was referring to the whole area, no courses were even planned yet so no "site(s)" had yet to be determined.

Tom, there's a vast difference between screwing up a great site and coaxing out a great course out of it.  Did I say you screwed it up? Or didn't do a good job?  Or perhaps I just meant that given a great site, it would be easier for a scribe to play architect than on a less endowed site - say something in West Texas.  Actually, you didn't even come to mind when I wrote that  I was thinking about golf writers.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Tim Weiman lives and breathes!

I also have seen the OM property and thought it was less impressive then the property of the other three.  That said I have a sneaky suspicion I'll be blown away when I see the finished product.

Here's a fantasy trip my Golf Guides is thinking of marketing...  

"Mac East and West in a day"

Your morning starts with an 8am breakfast of poached eggs at National's bird cage.  A round of golf follows at NGLA after which a limo whisks you to Southampton airport.  A G5 collect you and your clubs and 5.5 hours later you land at Coos Bay.  Another limo shuttles you down to Bandon's Old Mac in time for your 2:45pm tee time.  After golf you watch the sunset in the Bandon bar arguing with Klein and Doak about the minutiae of CB.

Sign me up!  (oh yeah, I'm suppose to be putting this together!)  

JC

[Daryl David]

"Imagine a place where Pebble Beach might be the second best course in the neighborhood."

I think they are stretching the term "neighborhood".  It is a long haul from Pebble up to the Preserve.  I would hardly call them neighbors.

[John Kavanaugh]

This article has so much I just had to provide the entire link.  The God of Golf Course Design http://www.portfolio.com/culture-lifestyle/culture-inc/sports/2007/08/16/Tom-Doak-Profile/?TID=rm/ysm/Golf_Dreams_Content

[John Kavanaugh]

"His Pacific Dunes layout sits on a stretch of pristine coastline, and the same is true of Cape Kidnappers golf course in New Zealand, which was ranked 27th best in the world by Golf Magazine in 2005 and is considered an antipodean Pebble Beach."

Isn't a true antipodean to Cape Kidnappers more likely Valderrama?

[Bob_Huntley]

"Imagine a place where Pebble Beach might be the second best course in the neighborhood."

I think they are stretching the term "neighborhood".  It is a long haul from Pebble up to the Preserve.  I would hardly call them neighbors.

If driving from Pebble to The Preserve, it would go something like this. A mile and a bit to Ocean Avenue in Carmel. A mile from the Carmel Gate to Highay One. About another mile down to the Carmel Valley Road(G16). Three miles to Rancho San Carlos Road. Nine miles up the hill to the Club. It would take a good thirty to forty minutes to complete the journey.

Sober, a very beautiful drive; having had a couple of drinks it could be hazardous to ones health.

[TEPaul]

If somebody is going to tout their course, at this point they should take Harry Colt's sort of counter-intuitive tact and say what he did:

"This is the least bad course I ever did."

[TEPaul]

Or maybe even take it a step further and say:

"This is the second least bad course I ever did."

[Norbert P]

  I got this in an email from Chambers Bay. . .  It has a charming little twist to an old adage.

 "Home of the 2010 US Amateur and 2015 US Open Championship.
   Let the pros walk in your footsteps."

[Dan Kelly]

  I got this in an email from Chambers Bay. . .  It has a charming little twist to an old adage.

 "Home of the 2010 US Amateur and 2015 US Open Championship.
   Let the pros walk in your footsteps."

And never mind the ... Amateurs?

"Let the greats walk in your footsteps" would make twice as much sense.

Everyone's a critic!

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