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Kirk Stewart

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North Palm Beach CC
« on: February 28, 2008, 01:37:31 PM »
What are the sentiments of the course after it has had some time to mature. While searching it seems many of the complaints revolved around an "unfinished look" and borderline greens. I suspect the greens where very firm as most are after renovation.

What are your current thoughts on NPBCC?  Is there any Raynor left in the design ?

Thanks

John_Cullum

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2008, 02:46:33 PM »
I believe Nicklaus' work eliminated any Raynor that may have still existed
"We finally beat Medicare. "

John Moore II

Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2008, 04:15:45 PM »
Perhaps some of the complaints also come from the $100 green fee that is charged there this time of year. Inflated if you ask me

John_Conley

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2008, 11:01:26 PM »
Wow.

I heard this course is good but it absolutely blew me away today.  The place definitely has the 'maintenance meld' going on and the setting enjoys breezes or strong wind.  What a great collection of par 4s.

Some of my faves:
1
2
4 (maybe I'd hate it if I saw it again, I had trouble with my second and think I could do better)
8
11
12
14 (possibly the best hole on the course)
16

That's nearly all the par 4s.  In an area with several excellent courses, which ones have better two-shot holes?

Big fan.

Dean Stokes

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2008, 11:06:42 PM »
Wow.

I heard this course is good but it absolutely blew me away today.  The place definitely has the 'maintenance meld' going on and the setting enjoys breezes or strong wind.  What a great collection of par 4s.

Some of my faves:
1
2
4 (maybe I'd hate it if I saw it again, I had trouble with my second and think I could do better)
8
11
12
14 (possibly the best hole on the course)
16

That's nearly all the par 4s.  In an area with several excellent courses, which ones have better two-shot holes?

Big fan.

I have not played it but my friends say it is excellent if not a little exacting due to the length and nature/undulation of the greens.

If any locals fancy a game please IM me as I would like to see this course first hand in the company of people who will appreciate it and understand the changes that have taken place.
Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Kirk Stewart

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2008, 09:29:38 AM »
Perhaps some of the complaints also come from the $100 green fee that is charged there this time of year. Inflated if you ask me


I played it in May and the rate was $39. For the price and it's locale alone,  I would highly recommend the place. Additionally, the reports of severe greens i.e. burried elephants is vastly overrated. I saw nothing out of the ordinary and nothing very original.

I came away very very underwhelmed, but a great bargain nonetheless


Jerry Kluger

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2008, 09:33:39 AM »
The course is having some significant issues with the playing public.  Unlike most GCA types, many people cannot deal with the green contours.  I played with a resident/member who was very involved with the course renovations and he told me that many people absolutely hate the greens as they are simply not good enough to figure them out, and some who can, don't enjoy them.  It is my understanding that they bulldozed practically the entire thing and created all of the elevation changes.  I played it last Fall and it was still in need of maturing but clearly the potential was there.  However, the price turned me off.  It was somewhere around $125 and I thought that was steep considering it is still a muni and it felt like a muni.  I also played the Links at Madison Green which was much less in cost, better conditioned, and a fun track.  Binks Forest, which is a Johnny Miller course that was just renovated, is also much less and while not my favorite, is certainly a better value.

John Mayhugh

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2008, 09:59:38 AM »
Cost definitely depends on the time of year you play it. 

The greens are from Jack's rumpled phase.  Doesn't have the huge buried elephants he used several years ago but are difficult to putt if you haven't seen anything like them.  Interestingly, I thought the new greens at Valhalla were more similar to the ones at NPB than the unchanged Valhalla greens.

I'll try to post some pictures later today or tomorrow.

John_Conley

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2008, 09:04:18 PM »
The course is having some significant issues with the playing public.  Unlike most GCA types, many people cannot deal with the green contours.

...and that's too bad.

Quote
I played with a resident/member who was very involved with the course renovations and he told me that many people absolutely hate the greens as they are simply not good enough to figure them out, and some who can, don't enjoy them.  It is my understanding that they bulldozed practically the entire thing and created all of the elevation changes.  I played it last Fall and it was still in need of maturing but clearly the potential was there.  However, the price turned me off.  It was somewhere around $125 and I thought that was steep considering it is still a muni and it felt like a muni.  I also played the Links at Madison Green which was much less in cost, better conditioned, and a fun track.  Binks Forest, which is a Johnny Miller course that was just renovated, is also much less and while not my favorite, is certainly a better value.

Jerry, I understand that is the perception of some members.  However, I must point out that this is a "one ball" golf course where you have to really mess up to lose a ball.  For South Florida, I'd say the course is pretty easy tee-to-green, at least from a balls lost standpoint.  The bunkers are a challenge, but you can always play it.

As for the greens, man they are rolling true.  I buried some nice putts on the back nine because I committed to lines and played aggressively.  Yes I three-putted some, but those three putts are a result of poor approaches.  I guess an element of their constituency likes a low-end, basic course.  The world needs those too, but this is a gem.

You mention price.  As I see it the course is an affordable daily-fee in the summer and operates as a de facto private club in the winter.  Residents can join and it is reasonable.  The three people I was paired with think it is a bargain.  Of course, none are old codgers that don't care where they play and want to spend $17 a round.

Similar issues have been discussed by the governments involved with Bethpage, Harding Park, and Torrey Pines.  Boca Raton has a piece-of-crap low-end muni (I'm told...haven't seen it), I consider it a good thing that North Palm has a gem of a course that compares favorably to Pine Tree.  Actually, because of the undulation it is probably more interesting.  A dead-ahead Fazio it's not.  And yes, I'm aware that the golfing public prefers Tom Fazio's work to anyone else's.

At $40, which is about the afternoon weekend summer rate, does your opinion change?  I've seen Madison Green.  Didn't play, but I went around in a golf car.  I thought it looked great.  I'd love to play it.  If I lived there I'd be happy to play it all the time.  Still, I've seen North Palm Beach and Madison Green is no North Palm.

Two of the residents I was paired with said, "it is so nice to hear that!" when I gushed about the course.  They mentioned that so many longtime members have complained about the redo.  One said, "a lot of the older members don't like having to step down to get into a bunker."  I understand they feel that way, but geez...to heed that is beyond dumbing design down to the least common denominator.

I'm sorry the golfing public hasn't been more receptive to NPB CC.  That's very sad actually, since it makes it less likely that other communities will try the same.

 :'(

John_Conley

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2008, 09:05:54 PM »

I'll try to post some pictures later today or tomorrow.

Please.  I'd love to see comments from others just based on photos.

Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2008, 08:21:39 AM »
I'd love to see it.  I used to live across the street from it in a condo in the NPB Marina and played it a lot in its old incarnation...

Jerry Kluger

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2008, 08:53:08 AM »
John: You can always look at a course from the perspective of how much it costs out of season but that to me is not a fair judement.  I forgot to mention West Palm Beach CC which is a public and I believe it is a muni - it's quite good, in fact the Seniors played an event there for a few years, and I don't believe it is anywhere near $125 in season.  Out of season rates are not an indication of anything - I played $275 in season courses in Las Vegas for $40 in August - so what.  Bandon is also reasonable in the winter but you're taking a chance on the weather and when you're not local that could make it very expensive if it's 40 degrees and raining.

I enjoyed what Jack did and I would recommend it to others, but at in season rates it's no bargain.  I was not impressed with the condition of the course when I played it although the greens were rolling just fine.  However, at that price you look at things with a more discriminating eye. 
Yes, you probably won't lose a whole lot of balls but for the 70 year old retiree who was never more than a once a week player before retirement, the greens and bunkers can simply be too much to handle.

John Mayhugh

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2008, 08:54:53 AM »
I will post some more photos later, but here is a good hole for discussion.  I think it is probably not so popular with the long-time players there, but I liked it.  The fifth hole is 177 from the regular tees, around 200 from the tips.  You can see the waterway off to the right.


Here's a look at the green from the side.  This is one of the more difficult greens on the course.


I really enjoyed the bunkering and green complexes.  They add a lot of interest to the course. 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 11:23:02 AM by John Mayhugh »

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2008, 09:02:50 AM »
There have been other threads on NPBCC here before with pictures. Perhaps someone can find them.

I played there with Cary L. shortly after the course opened. The greens were the big topic of conversation. Many locals didn't like them. I thought the course needed a few plays to get the hang of the greens. For comparison purposes, Lederach's greens are more severe.

It is a defacto private club in prime season for the residents of NPB. Off season, it's a great deal for visitors and locals alike.But who visits in the off season?  I will try to play there again on my next visit during the fall shoulder season to see how the course has matured.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 11:19:35 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
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John_Conley

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2008, 09:57:42 AM »
John: You can always look at a course from the perspective of how much it costs out of season but that to me is not a fair judement. 

Jerry, where do you live?  Guest fees at many area private clubs are $100 in the winter.  Are you in South Florida or elsewhere?  Who visits in the summer?  I did.

John Mayhugh

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Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2008, 12:02:23 PM »
Here are a few more photos.  This is the green on the first hole.  It's fairly typical of the majority of the greens.


The fourth hole is a really tough one.  It's also one of the few issues that I have with the routing.  You can see a number of carts off to the right.  Players approaching the green on the third hole are driving up the same path as the players going out on the fourth.  Overall I think the routing makes very good use of the available space.


From the regular tees, the fourth hole is about 400 and it stretches to nearly 450.  It's a dogleg left and you run out of fairway about 240 yards from the regular tees.  The approach is difficult if you don't have a good angle because the green is well protected by trees that pinch in and the front bunker.  This photo is taken from an ideal angle, but that's not where I was hitting from.  I wish I had taken photos of the green complex. 


The ninth hole gives you an example of how much width there is. 


You can see the fairway has a lot of movement.


This was one of the wilder greens.  You don't need water & out of bounds to make a challenge.  First photo is from the left side and the second one is more from the rear.



I think I paid around $80 in late December.  Considering what some courses in south Florida charge in the winter, I thought NPB was a pretty good deal.

Jeff Grossman

Re: North Palm Beach CC
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2008, 03:36:59 PM »
I will post some more photos later, but here is a good hole for discussion.  I think it is probably not so popular with the long-time players there, but I liked it.  The fifth hole is 177 from the regular tees, around 200 from the tips.  You can see the waterway off to the right.


Here's a look at the green from the side.  This is one of the more difficult greens on the course.


I really enjoyed the bunkering and green complexes.  They add a lot of interest to the course. 

I happen to enjoy playing the course now.  As Steve S. mentions it takes a few plays to figure out the greens.  IMO, to play this course well you need to have a good knowledge of where the pin is located on each green.  This may come to a surprise to people, but sometimes it is easier to play a hole if you actually miss the green, then it is to hit the green on the wrong side of the hole location.  I have played it about a dozen or so times and finally shot under par!

My only beef I have is with the green contours on the 5th, IMO are terrible for the length  of shot, the front pin position is almost impossible to access.


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