[Jon Wiggett]

I was thinking about Mackenzie last night and thinking that it was ironic that his most famous course, ANGC (IMHO) is certainly known by more people than any of his others. It then struck me that ANGC did not have his usual flurry of bunkers, indeed it only had 21 when it first opened if I remember correctly.

Are there other GCAs whos most famous courses are not their typical style?

[Jeff_Brauer]

I'm not sure, but I suspect there are.  In my case, I would say the Quarry is my most famous course and probably in part because its so different than my other courses, due to the site.  I would think Keith Foster's Quarry in San Antonio is similar.  For C and C, Sandhills will always be unusual because of its site, etc.

After all, its the unusual that stand out.  OF course, ANGC is famous for other reasons and Bobby Jones did have some influence on the design, as did the great depression.

[Jason Connor]

Is Ross an example?  People tend to cite Pinehurst #2 as his "style" when in fact its turtle shell greens didn't appear on too many other Ross courses.

[Jeff_Mingay]

I've always admired A.W. Tillinghast for the remarkable diversity of golf courses in his portfolio. Look at Winged Foot, Somerset Hills and San Francisco GC, for example. If you didn't know better, you might assume these outstanding courses were designed by different people.

[David Stamm]

I've always admired A.W. Tillinghast for the remarkable diversity of golf courses in his portfolio. Look at Winged Foot, Somerset Hills and San Francisco GC, for example. If you didn't know better, you might assume these outstanding courses were designed by different people.

Jeff, you read my mind. Tillie and the exact examples you gave are what I was thinking. The variety in his designs is remarkable.

[RJ_Daley]

I wonder if someone more familiar with his work than I can make a case for Desmond Muirhead's most famous VS his style orientation.

[Art Roselle]

I was thinking about Mackenzie last night and thinking that it was ironic that his most famous course, ANGC (IMHO) is certainly known by more people than any of his others. It then struck me that ANGC did not have his usual flurry of bunkers, indeed it only had 21 when it first opened if I remember correctly.

Are there other GCAs whos most famous courses are not their typical style?

It seems like the implication here is that MacKenzie courses usually have a lot of bunkers.  I don't think that is the case.  I think one of his famous quotes was "few bunkers, intelligently placed".  Also, despite his affection for the Old Course, he did not necessarily think that bunkering was the key to that course's brilliance.  In his description of the Jockey Club, he made several comparisons to TOC and the many similarities he saw in the undulating ground, and yet he also wanted to leave the course with no bunkers at all

"The undulations have created such a varied, interesting and pleasurable test of golf that we do not require a single bunker"

In the end, he did build a few bunkers "for the sake of appearance," but it was almost an afterthought.  Some of this was probably driven by the tougher economic times in which he did some of his work, but I don't think MacKenzie is (or should be) know for a "flurry of bunkers".  At ANGC, I am pretty sure the fairway bunker on #10 is the only one left that retains MacKenzie's original design (and it was then a greenside bunker).  Most of the rest were moved or changed or added by Perry Maxwell or later renovations.

[Jeff_Mingay]

David,

I find Tillinghast is always in my mind when working on new projects. I follow his example with regard to creating diverse courses religiously.

[Jon Wiggett]

Art,

I was fortunate enough to grow up in the Leeds area, north east England. As such I have played many Mac courses and my experience is that they usually had substantially more than the 21 bunkers that ANGC had at the start (I believe it was 21). Looking at many of his well known course, Melbourne, Cypress P, Moortown, Alwoodley they all seem to have quite a few. Maybe it was economic reasons or just a change in style, I don't know.

Often, however if the product is different to the expectations, it will standout. I was just wondering if this might atribute to a courses fame?

[BCrosby]

The paucity of bunkers at ANGC had nothing to do with the Great Depression. It was a quite conscious design choice, one that MacK expressed any number of times.

ANGC was the course MacK wanted to build. It was the product of the evolution of MacK's thinking about gca. It is a quite logical result of that evolution. An evolution that was well underway long before the Great Depression took hold.

Bob

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Jon, You would know that MacKenzie's original bunkers at Alwoodley were a nightmare to maintain, raised up faces of sand, usually higher than the green they were attending. But they only started raking the bunkers (once a week) after WW1.

I often say that Fowler is another who has no recognisable style. The courses of his which I know (most of the UK ones) are utterly different - and invariably interesting.

Of course, ANGC was not a solo effort. RTJ had some influence - possibly quite a lot - and his philosophy was surely a major factor.

[Jon Wiggett]

Jon, You would know that MacKenzie's original bunkers at Alwoodley were a nightmare to maintain, raised up faces of sand, usually higher than the green they were attending. But they only started raking the bunkers (once a week) after WW1.

Indeed Mark they were! Mackenzie felt that bunkers should be set up the side of a mound and not in a hollow as this was more natural. It is however the opposite of what one finds on TOC a course he admired more than any other.

As to raking bunkers, up until the early 90's there where many bunkers at Alwoodley that were left to grow over through the season and could only have been weeded once or twice a year. This gave the place a special feeling about it especially when you played 18 holes seeing maybe only one other golfer. Alas those halcyon days are gone

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