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Brian_Ewen

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Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« on: February 17, 2008, 05:15:21 AM »
Stumbled across a lot of old photos of Pasatiempo today on FlickR.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rebjr/tags/pasatiempo/page3/

Thought they might be of interest .



« Last Edit: February 17, 2008, 05:17:39 AM by Brian_Ewen »
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2008, 09:04:17 AM »
Brian:

That last picture is looking from the 17th green to the 18th.  It shows one of the problems in trying to "restore" the course perfectly ... the land has eroded enough that those bunkers hanging down into the barranca would now have to be built out of thin air!

Also, in the photo of Marion Hollins, standing on the back of the tee (from left) are Dr. MacKenzie, Glenna Collett, Bobby Jones, and Cyril Tolley.  But, I don't know who is the very tall fellow just to the left of MacKenzie.  Somewhere in there should be the teaching pro Ernest Jones, who was the first club professional.
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ed_getka

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2008, 10:16:02 AM »
For those who get a chance to get to Pasatiempo to play, be sure to leave time to look around in the clubhouse. There are some hole evolution photos that are very cool to check out. Pix from the early years of the course, with pix from recent years, and then post-restoration/renovation.

Tom,
    I noticed on hole #2 in the clubhouse photos that originally the green had an additional fronting bunker to the right of what is there now. I was just curious why that wasn't reimplemented?
    The KP group is really looking forward to seeing the completed work in April.
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

J_ Crisham

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2008, 12:39:36 PM »
Ed, Is the baranca as severe today as in the pics?When I last played here 12 yrs ago I don't recall it being so visually intimidating. As an aside starting to get excited for KP event as we are getting pounded with rain/snow in Illinois once again.
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2008, 12:55:33 PM »
Ed:

I remember the bunker you speak of on #2.  Honestly, I can't remember for sure why we did not restore it.  We made that decision a few years ago when we were working on #2, and the club wasn't as gung-ho to restore EVERYTHING at that time.  It may have had something to do with the trees and cart path between #2 and #3 ... wouldn't have made sense to remove the bunker without removing some trees, and removing the trees would be unsafe with the cart path for #3 right there.  It also may have had to do with the bunker being built for the hole as a par five (tee across the road), and now that it's not a par five, the bunker wouldn't be as relevant for most players.
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Jonathan McCord

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2008, 12:58:05 PM »
Here is a picture of the 18th as its was in October? of 2006.  The hay or straw beneath, and to the left of the green is where a bunker is being placed, I believe, to more closely match the vintage photographs of the hole.  It certainly doesn't look as rugged and intimidating as it used to, although the bunker will be something special!

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"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

David Stamm

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2008, 01:41:54 PM »
Quote from: Jack Crisham on February 17, 2008, 12:39:36 PM
Ed, Is the baranca as severe today as in the pics?When I last played here 12 yrs ago I don't recall it being so visually intimidating. As an aside starting to get excited for KP event as we are getting pounded with rain/snow in Illinois once again.

Not to speak for Ed, Jack, but I think when some clearing of trees and overgrowth in certain areas took place it really contributed to this. 11 springs to mind in particular on the left side.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

ed_getka

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2008, 01:48:50 PM »
Jack,
   The hole would not have looked as visually intimidating 12 years ago as it did in the early years. Jonathan's photo captures that. However, it will be more intimidating when we are there in April. The Renaissance team has put back in the far left bunker you see in the original photo. The area where the right front bunker is is way too steep now for a bunker to get in there. When I toured the back nine a few weeks ago the face had actually eroded more from the heavy rain we had been having and took down a small retention wall that must have been trying to prevent erosion.

Tom,
   I didn't think about the par 5 aspect from across the road. However, given the number of golfers that bail out to the open area to the left side of the fairway off the tee, I would think that the right bunker would still be a useful defense, without needing to take trees out. It is a very good hole as it stands now, so it is a minor quibble and I was more curious about it than anything.
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2008, 01:51:09 PM »
I'm trying to figure out which tee Marion Hollins is driving from in that first photo, and wondering if the big old house in the background - the one with the turret - still exists.  It looks like the Bates home in "Psycho."

I do love Pasatiempo and can't wait to get out for the Kings Putter in April.  Anybody who's on the fence about coming should do so just to get a look at the renovated Pasa.
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BCrosby

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2008, 02:27:42 PM »
Is it possible the tall guy is Max Behr? Not a spitting image, but he was about that tall and it would make sense that he would have been there.

Bob
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David Stamm

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2008, 02:47:38 PM »
Quote from: BCrosby on February 17, 2008, 02:27:42 PM
Is it possible the tall guy is Max Behr? Not a spitting image, but he was about that tall and it would make sense that he would have been there.

Bob


It's possible, but I don't think it's likely, Bob. I never saw Behr wear a hat in any photo's, although that doesn't mean he never did. Also, while he was taller than AM, he wasn't THAT much taller.

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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

ed_getka

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2008, 04:03:11 PM »
Bill,
   I would guess that it is #12 tee.

Go to pasatiempo.com to see and click on photographs to see some great vintage photos by Julian Graham, and contemporary pix by Rob Babcock and the Henebrys. For those familiar with the holes check out the recent pix of #17 and 18.
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Brent Hutto

Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2008, 04:31:27 PM »
It looks to me like the fellow in the Hollins photo is standing on a little upslope beside the tee box proper. If so he's probably only a few inches taller than MacKenzie rather than a head or more as it appears.

David,

The guy in the photo you posted is holding a hat that I assume he was wearing just moments earlier. Or is that not Behr?

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Tom_Doak

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2008, 04:40:55 PM »
I am fairly certain that's NOT the 12th tee in the Hollins photo ... there's a steep uphill grade directly behind the tees on #12.  The only hole I can figure it could be is #4 ... if the fairway in the distance is the downhill #2, there are no trees between 2 and 3 (out of sight because of the crowd), and the old house is up somewhere by the Pasatiempo Inn.

The other striking thing is that it appears Marion Hollins (and presumably Glenna Collett) are playing the back tees!  That would explain why their scores were high on the day.
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2008, 04:46:18 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 17, 2008, 04:40:55 PM
I am fairly certain that's NOT the 12th tee in the Hollins photo ... there's a steep uphill grade directly behind the tees on #12.  The only hole I can figure it could be is #4 ... if the fairway in the distance is the downhill #2, there are no trees between 2 and 3 (out of sight because of the crowd), and the old house is up somewhere by the Pasatiempo Inn.

The other striking thing is that it appears Marion Hollins (and presumably Glenna Collett) are playing the back tees!  That would explain why their scores were high on the day.

I was thinking it might be the fifth tee, that mowed area in the background looks awfully steep for #2 fairway.

From everything I've heard, Marion Hollins was LONG.  Proved #16 could be a par 3.  And Glenna Collett was a great player in her day.
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David Stamm

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2008, 06:35:11 PM »
Quote from: Brent Hutto on February 17, 2008, 04:31:27 PM
It looks to me like the fellow in the Hollins photo is standing on a little upslope beside the tee box proper. If so he's probably only a few inches taller than MacKenzie rather than a head or more as it appears.

David,

The guy in the photo you posted is holding a hat that I assume he was wearing just moments earlier. Or is that not Behr?



Goes to show you how observant I am, Brent. Yes, that man in the photo on the left is Behr. In any case, the man in the Pasa photo just doesn't look like Behr to me. But considering I never noticed the hat in Behr's hand, what do I know.... :P
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

rchesnut

Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2008, 07:07:30 PM »
I sent the photo to Pasatiempo's former historian Bob Beck, and asked him for his comments on the picture.  His response:

4th tee.  In the photo is MacKenzie, Jones, Ernest Jones, Peter Hay, Grantland Rice, Hollins, possible O.B. Keeler.  House in background is the old victorian that stood where the present Pasatiempo Inn is located.  Built by Kerr.  Bought by Billings, one of those who established Davenport Cement Plant.  Put a 9 hole golf course on the property.   Badminton courts marked by palms on corner.  Was lived in by MacKenzie and Bickerton (project manager) and Olmsted people during construction.  Have photo of MacKenzie standing on porch and Hollins in garden.  Initially considered as a clubhouse with the 1st tee next to the present 1st green - MacKenzie designed a single loop with 1st green #18.   Changed at suggestion of Gibbs, Chief Engineer for Olmsted Bros. Engineering study indicated it was not worth saving except for first floor.   Turned into a speak easy during depression called "Alexanders."  Very popular with Marion's guests.

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Tim Taylor

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2008, 08:04:26 AM »
I can't believe how BIG the golf carts are in the second photo!  ;D

Tim
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mike_beene

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Re: Old Pics of Pasatiempo
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2008, 10:10:21 PM »
I didn't know Ernest Jones became the pro there.Did he leave New York for good? Or did he go back and forth. Could he walk a hilly property with his leg? Did Ed Merrins marry his daughter or niece?
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