Firm & Fast, The Stimpmeter and The Thumper!?

[TEPaul]

I'm certain everyone on here is familiar with the Stimpmeter, what it was invented and intended for and what its seemingly incorrect and seemingly unintended use has wrought on golf architecture.

But have you heard of the Thumper?

If not, it's the USGA's new device or tool to test the consistency of turf firmness. It can be used anywhere to test firmness and firmness consistency, "through the green"---eg perhaps in rough areas and certainly on fairways, approaches, and certainly on greens.

The Stimpmeter was invented in 1935 by Massachuset's Edward Stimpson and its purpose was to test the consistency of the speed of putting greens. I doubt when Edward Stimpson invented it he contemplated that it would some day help promote a green putting speed race to the detriment of putting greens and their architectural preservation.

The USGA is proud of their "Thumper" and I see no reason at all why they shouldn't be. Part of my reason to think that, is, I love the idea of greater turf firmness in golf and, at this point, I really can't contemplate how it could be abused and used in ways it was not intended to be used. But perhaps some detrimental ways it can be used are out there in our future.

I also always welcome the opportunity to sit down and talk to people from the USGA Tech Center, and that most certainly includes the current USGA Tech Center Director Dick Rugge. I also very much enjoyed sitting down and talking to his predecessor Frank Thomas. While in Houston last week at the USGA Annual Meeting a few of us on here sat down and talked to Dick about the Thumper, among other things. As with most testing devices the USGA test center uses someone at the Tech Center invented the Thumper and made it.

The two words of “Firm and Fast” are often used interchangeably. They shouldn’t be as “firm”, particularly on greens, basically pertains to the playability of approach shots and other generally fuller recovery shots around greens while “fast” generally pertains to the playability of putting and other very close green-end recovery shots even if there is some overlap in both playability areas between them.

As usual, Dick Rugge and the Tech Center are just looking to test for consistency-----in this case the consistency of firmness with their Thumper and to collect data to that effect.

But what if golf let the Thumper numbers (if the Thumper even relies on some kind of firmness numbers) get out of control some day like stimpmeter green speed numbers apparently have gotten somewhat out of control and courses become too firm?

Too Firm???

Somehow I don’t see that as a bad thing. At least it will be a world of golf conditioning where massive over-irrigation isn’t part of it. Frankly, to test turf that's completely soft and soaked there is certainly no need for a device like The Thumper. But I wonder if the USGA or their Green Section has some kind of ideal firmness or firmness number in mind? 

So, what do you think about the USGA’s new device or tool----The Thumper, that was invented to test turf firmness?

[Tom_Doak]

That would be cool if courses started competing over firmness.  However, I would be more afraid that members would start demanding their courses be of a certain softness, instead.

[JESII]

Consistent firmness scares me...

[TEPaul]

"Consistent firmness scares me..."

Sully:

Does it scare you more than inconsistent firmness? And, if so, why is that?

Actually, it just occurs to me that perhaps I wasn't listening carefully enough (not an infrequent occurence with me) to what Dick Rugge was saying. I believe he did mention that if the USGA had had The Thumper at Shinnecock at the Open in 2004 what happened with some of the greens such as #7 and #10 never would've happened!!!


"However, I would be more afraid that members would start demanding their courses be of a certain softness, instead."

TomD:

It is my hope that the USGA will steadfastly continue to call The Thumper a device to test for the consistency of FIRMNESS and not for the consistency of SOFTNESS! 

Furthermore, it's called The THUMPER and not The SPLAT!

But I hear your concern, and so, I think heretofore we should label all people who propose The Thumper should test for softness a bunch of damn whimps, sissies and non-golfers and all those who propose The Thumper should test for higher degrees of bounce and rollout Real Men and Real Golfers!

If we can't beat the whimps and sissies out of the box this time at least we can try to humiliate them out of the box this time! 

[Tom_Doak]

Tom:

That is a nice try by Mr. Rugge but Shinnecock was an example of "pilot error".  If they'd checked the Stimpmeter readings closely they could have come to the same conclusion, but they didn't.  (And they HAVE had the "thumper" that long.)

[JESII]

Tom,

What time of day was Dick Rugge referring to when speaking about the 7th and 10th at Shinnecock?

I guess they could have measured ("Thumped") those greens at 7am and gotten all 18 to the same number (like they try to do with speed consistency).  When Goosen gets to #7, it will be a hell of alot firmer than when he gets to #12 just because of the topography and surroundings, don't you think?

Considering that, they are going to have to guestimate all these other variables in hopes of creating consistency.

Scott Anderson said it best when I asked what he thought about re-directing some creek somewhere on our golf course..."Don't F with Mother Nature"

I think a tool like this could only cause over manipulation and I think the USGA already overmanipulate the golf course set ups for their Open.

How could this tool help your superintendent on a daily basis?

[TEPaul]

"If they'd checked the Stimpmeter readings closely they could have come to the same conclusion, but they didn't.  (And they HAVE had the "thumper" that long.)"

Hey, come on Tom, that was then. This is now. Try to give them some credit for at least trying. If Rugge said had they used The Thumper at Shinnecock in 2004 those greens wouldn't have been as over the top as they were then clearly those in the USGA who set up Shinnecock understand what he's saying, where he's coming from and where he'd like to go with it.

Yes, he did say they had  The Thumper in 2004 around the Open but I believe he also said it was too new and the feedback with it was too new so it wasn't used at Shinnecock as he expects it will be in the future.

By the way, I think he also said they wanted to call it something like the Thumpmeter, but apparently that name has been branded for some other reason, so we can expect it will  be called The Thumper for the rest of time.

[Joe Hancock]

Consistent firmness scares me...

After 4 hours, you're supposed to seek medical help immediately......

 

[Dean Stokes]

Maybe the USGA needs a 'colormeter'. Could they not have seen by looking at the color of the greens there was going to be a problem?

[JESII]

Consistent firmness scares me...

After 4 hours, you're supposed to seek medical help immediately......

 

For an old bastard you are really quick...


Do you take a bath in two seperate baths with your girl?

[TEPaul]

Joe Hancock, that is positively hilarious, one of the best retorts ever on here.

I'm pretty sure that a name for The Thumper such as  the Viagrameter is branded  but I might send Rugge an email right now to put in for a name change for The Thumper to the Erectile-meter.

From Hollywood Squares:

Peter Marshall:
"It is considered in bad taste to discuss two subjects at nudist camps. One is politics, what is the other?"

Paul Lynde:
"Tape measures"

[Joe Hancock]

I think "The Thumper" is a more modern version of the "Steely Dan"......

Joe

[JESII]

Dan Kelly?

[TEPaul]

DeanS:

If The Thumper does what it might to promote some real firm and fast around the American golf scene I don't think anyone is going to need a colormeter. 

I can see the day in the not too distant future when the rallying cry on courses all across America will be:

"Brown is Beautiful"

.....at which point, both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton will probably figure out some way of condemning it as some kind of racial slur. But at that point I fully expect tanning salon operators all across America to sue Jackson and Sharpton in a massive class-action suit for trying to promote restrain of trade.

And then dermatologists across America will sue all tanning salon operators in another massive  class-action suit, and on and on....

But such is the AMERICAN WAY!

[Adam Clayman]

If they do switch to the erectile meter, the numbers won't likely get out, or abused.

[James Bennett]

Could be another opportunity for a joint marketing initiative for the USGA.

The Thumper, seeking consistent firmness, proudly supported by ........

James B

[JSPayne]

Honestly, IMO, I think this is all getting to be a bit too much. Why do so many people love this game? Because, for the most part, it's you against NATURE.....against the elements, the lay of the land, the grass type, the turf and soil conditions.

I think it only makes the game more CHALLANGING for all, especially the pros, when the game has to be played by FEEL, and not by reading some number and having it register as "fast, slow, firm, soft, receptive, etc. etc." without even having to walk on to a single green.

Won't trying to make all the greens as perfectly consistant in terms of speed and firmness only allow the professionals to be better able to judge EXACTLY how their ball will react on the putting surface? The professionals of today are amazing athletes with exceptional technology. I think the diversity, the INCONSISTANCY, and the sheer feeling of NOT KNOWING how fast each and every green will run or how receptive it will be to a particular shot is the last defense this game has against golfers who can throw darts at any pin inside of 150 yards.

The farther we push grass towards NUMBERS, as opposed to what is actually best for the plant itself and it's role in the game, the more we are dooming ourselves (and I speak most specifically for me, as a superintendent) to struggle and inevitably fail.

[Adam Clayman]

Could Thumper be used by supers to detect specific subtle drainage or coverage issues, before they become less subtle and more of an issue?

[Sean_A]

Honestly, IMO, I think this is all getting to be a bit too much. Why do so many people love this game? Because, for the most part, it's you against NATURE.....against the elements, the lay of the land, the grass type, the turf and soil conditions.

I think it only makes the game more CHALLANGING for all, especially the pros, when the game has to be played by FEEL, and not by reading some number and having it register as "fast, slow, firm, soft, receptive, etc. etc." without even having to walk on to a single green.

Won't trying to make all the greens as perfectly consistant in terms of speed and firmness only allow the professionals to be better able to judge EXACTLY how their ball will react on the putting surface? The professionals of today are amazing athletes with exceptional technology. I think the diversity, the INCONSISTANCY, and the sheer feeling of NOT KNOWING how fast each and every green will run or how receptive it will be to a particular shot is the last defense this game has against golfers who can throw darts at any pin inside of 150 yards.

The farther we push grass towards NUMBERS, as opposed to what is actually best for the plant itself and it's role in the game, the more we are dooming ourselves (and I speak most specifically for me, as a superintendent) to struggle and inevitably fail.

JS

I agree with you.  Thumper, stimpmeter, bathtubs, Steely Dan, what they hell do these things have to do with the game?  They are all scams, not least, Steely Dan.

Ciao

[TEPaul]

Adam Clayman:

Interesting thought in that last post.

But most of the rest of the posts, man, I'll  tell you, it seems like on here if the USGA came out fore square behind Mother and apple pie most of you guys would find some way to condemn them for it or be suspicious of ulterior motives on their part. The attitude is both not impressive and a little depressing to boot. This isn't the first time it's occured to me that most of us on here are basically a bunch of inveterate automatic whiners!   

[James Bennett]

Tom Paul

I recall perhaps a couple of years ago one of our UK brethren mentioning three separate measuring tools planned for superintendent use. (Note, superintendent use, not general member use).

Stimpmeter
Thumper (or equivalent)
??  Can't remember the third (can anyone remember?  It was probably Adrian Stiff who advised of the three 'tools')

I also recall one of MacKenzie's golden rules, about the greens and surrounds being similar in playing style (or words to that effect) which implies the role of the Thumper is just as important on the approachs and surrounds as it is on the greens.

The tools are great.  The use of the tools or related actions (direct and indirect)  by different collectives of human beings organised as committees (perhaps an oxymoron there - an organised committee) seems to get the invererate automatic whining.

My previous post was just a shot at cheap humour.  I do hope our course supt can access a 'Thumper' soon, and whatever the third tool is.  We might see some more surrounds renovation conducted when the greens renovation occurs.

James B

[Steve Burrows]

As others have mentioned, this "Thumper" is not a new phenomenon; it has been around for at least a few years. 

As a tool, I certainly don't have a problem with it, provided that it is used in the same spirit as it, and the Stimpmeter, were DESIGNED to be used, not as they often ARE used.  If each of these tools were used simply for the superintendent to gather data to show RELATIVE consistency in playing conditions across his entire golf course (with no subjective value attributed to "slow" or "fast," "soft or "hard"), then it has a place in the game.

But when it becomes part of some modern day arms race, I believe that it becomes problematic.  I remember watching two USGA guys walking from hole to hole at the 2006 U.S. Open, one with the device, and one with a clipboard marking down numbers.  It seemed only to add to the absurdity of the scale of the modern event and underscored the distance that golf has gone from its roots, when two guys standing on a Scottish dune would take a stick and a ball, pick a spot in the distance, and agree that the one to get there in the fewest strokes would be declared the winner... At least until the picked another point along the shoreline.

[TEPaul]

James:

Isn't it just amazing to consider that if the R&A had invented The Thumper instead of the USGA, you probably wouldn't hear a single word of complaint about it from a single soul on here? Matter of fact, this board would probably roundly congratulate them for it.

Which probably only goes to prove if an organization is responsible for monitoring and administrating various aspects of golf, as the R&A and USGA are, the best policy to allay complaints is probably to strive to both say and do just about nothing at all.

[igrowgrass]

Do you have a picture of this tool?

[Scott Stambaugh]

The 'Thumper' is a ridiculous name.  I preferred one USGA Agronomist's suggestion- the 'Firmometer'...

SS

[Tags:]

Tags: