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Jason Connor

Architect owned courses
« on: February 13, 2008, 11:06:40 AM »
Having arrived in Florida and still searching for a home club I found the website for Forest Lake Golf Club in Ocoee.

The website says "Owned & Operated by the Golf Architects" which was interesting to me.

So I wondered how many other such clubs are there?  Oakmont and the Fownes and other such clubs were more owner-designed than architect owned, a big difference.

In case you're wondering the firm is Clifton, Ezell & Clifton Golf Design Group.

I've ruled the club out without ever playing it because they don't allow walking (the guy on the phone told me there were long walks from green to tee though the satellite image certainly does not indicate that).  Which also made me question whether these guys are architects / owners who "get it".

Anyway, what other architect owned clubs are out there?



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Peter Nomm

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2008, 12:11:11 PM »
Do we assume you would not include courses built by their owners (ie. "Frank's Chip & Putt")?
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Lester George

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2008, 12:20:31 PM »
This should be interesting?

Lester
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Jason Connor

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2008, 12:29:14 PM »
Quote from: Peter Nomm on February 13, 2008, 12:11:11 PM
Do we assume you would not include courses built by their owners (ie. "Frank's Chip & Putt")?

Right.  I'm talking about architects who own courses, not owners who build their own course.


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We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

Norbert P

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2008, 12:40:18 PM »
  PB Dye has Bucks Point in Liberty, Indiana.  It's actually on a 100 year lease but he's principal executive methinks.   (Public access built for $1.5 mil)

  Of course there's Pete Dye's place in W.Virginia. 

Anyone ever play either of these? 
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Chip Gaskins

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2008, 12:45:34 PM »
does Norman own Medalist?
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George Pazin

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2008, 12:46:33 PM »
Slag, just to clarify, Pete Dye does not own Pete Dye Golf Club in WV. I believe it was simply named in his honor after he devoted so many years to designing and building it. There was so discussion of it late last summer, after the Nationwide Tour event that is held there annually, and I believe someone mentioned the owners then, though I don't remember who they were (the poster or the owner, that is).
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Norbert P

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2008, 01:14:38 PM »
 Thanks George.

   
"Never mind."
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"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

wsmorrison

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2008, 03:25:14 PM »
William Flynn owned, designed and built Marble Hall Golf Links, which opened in 1924.  I believe this was the first public golf course in suburban Philadelphia. 
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Greg Holland

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2008, 03:31:08 PM »
Dan Maples owns and operates several courses I believe -- several of which he designed.
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RJ_Daley

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2008, 04:00:56 PM »
As far as Maples, does that include "the Pit"?

Ken Thomlinson I believe owns or owns a piece of Tidewater in North Myrtle, I think...

What about Nicklaus.  Does he have a piece of some of the courses his firm designed? 

And, have some architects had to take a position or take back a % ownership of a course where the developer defaulted, and the archie had to take a piece back in lieu of pay?
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Greg Holland

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2008, 04:10:26 PM »
Quote from: RJ_Daley on February 13, 2008, 04:00:56 PM
As far as Maples, does that include "the Pit"?

Yes, according to his website, Maples manages the Pit.
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Billsteele

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2008, 04:41:44 PM »
Nicklaus has an interest in Muirfield Village.

Didn't Robert Trent Jones II at one time have an interest in Eagle Point in Oregon?
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Jeff_Mingay

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2008, 04:42:45 PM »
Rod Whitman and I are collaborating with former PGA Tour pro Richard Zokol at Sagebrush Golf and Sporting Club in British Columbia. Zokol is one of the golf course designers, and also developer/co-owner of the club.
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jeffmingay.com

Chip Gaskins

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2008, 05:23:26 PM »
Quote from: RJ_Daley on February 13, 2008, 04:00:56 PM
As far as Maples, does that include "the Pit"?

Ken Thomlinson I believe owns or owns a piece of Tidewater in North Myrtle, I think...

What about Nicklaus.  Does he have a piece of some of the courses his firm designed? 

And, have some architects had to take a position or take back a % ownership of a course where the developer defaulted, and the archie had to take a piece back in lieu of pay?

There was a rumor there were some improprieties on who really was the architect of Tidewater...
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Lester George

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2008, 05:27:32 PM »
Chip,

That may be more than a rumor.  But then again, anyone who has been in the business very long has had work stolen from them.

Lester
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Ryan DeMay

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2008, 09:37:59 PM »
I believe Urbana Country Club in west central Ohio is still owned by the Dye family.  Nine holes by Pete's father P.F. in 1922 and another nine by P.B. in 1993.
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Mike Nuzzo

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2008, 09:41:40 PM »
Ron Garl
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Doug Ralston

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2008, 10:07:14 PM »
Quote from: Slag Bandoon on February 13, 2008, 12:40:18 PM
  PB Dye has Bucks Point in Liberty, Indiana.  It's actually on a 100 year lease but he's principal executive methinks.   (Public access built for $1.5 mil)

  Of course there's Pete Dye's place in W.Virginia. 

Anyone ever play either of these? 

Slag;

I have indeed played Buck Point. It is a very sweet little layout. The folks in the shop claim PB intends to retire there. Play it if you ever get to this area.

Also; in Cincy there is an Owner as architect course where the owner did a pretty good job. It is Stonelick Hills, and the owner is Jeff Osterfeld, who created a sandwich chain called Penn Station. He was serious about his course, and has made a strong impression locally.

Doug
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Doug Ralston

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2008, 10:10:19 PM »
Quote from: Lester George on February 13, 2008, 12:20:31 PM
This should be interesting?

Lester

Lester, please message me with a way to contact you, if you would. I have some thoughts. I found your do not recieve messages here.

Doug
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Robert Thompson

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2008, 10:58:58 PM »
Pat Ruddy owns and designed European Club.
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Darren deMaille

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2008, 10:55:54 AM »
Nicklaus owns The Bear's Club
Does Nick Price Own McArthur Golf Club?
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Norbert P

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2008, 11:26:57 AM »
Brian Whitcomb PGA President, designed, owns, and operates Bend, Oregon’s Lost Tracks Golf Club

 
 "In 1989, he designed and built The 500 Club in Phoenix, which he operates with Tom Sneva, the winner of the 1983 Indianapolis 500. In 1992, he designed and built Club West in Phoenix, which he sold in 1998.  In 1995, he designed and constructed Lost Tracks Golf Club in Bend, Oregon. Whitcomb also has partnered with three of his former employees to build The Golf Club at Beardance in Castle Rock, Colo., the home of the Colorado PGA Section." 2006 news article from The Bend Bulletin"

As an aside, Lost Tracks has 14 doglegged holes. Fun course.

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"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Lester George

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2008, 11:40:01 AM »
Doug,

lester@georgegolfdesign.com

or

804-272-4700

Lester
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Dean Paolucci

Re: Architect owned courses
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2008, 05:30:27 PM »
Bayonne is designed, owned, and operated by Eric Bergstol.
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