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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Best 4 courses of architects
« on: February 12, 2008, 04:26:40 AM »
I was trying to think of the best 4 courses of each architect.

I'll start:

Tom Doak

Ballyneal
Pacific Dunes
Cape Kiddnappers
Barnbougle Dunes


Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2008, 09:10:45 AM »
I'll try one, in no particular order

Pete Dye

Ocean Course
Harbor Towne
Crooked Stick
TPC Sawgrass

Lester

hhuffines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2008, 09:55:55 AM »
Ellis Maples:

Grandfather
CCNC Dogwood
Forest Oaks
Deep Springs

Ian Andrew

Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2008, 09:57:51 AM »
Stanley Thompson

Banff Springs
Highland Links
Jasper Park
St. George's

james soper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2008, 10:24:13 AM »
coore & crenshaw:

sand hills
friar's head
plantation course at kapalua
old sandwich

Ed Oden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2008, 10:51:32 AM »
I'll try one, in no particular order

Pete Dye

Ocean Course
Harbor Towne
Crooked Stick
TPC Sawgrass

Lester


Lester, do you prefer Crooked Stick to Whistling Straits? 

Adam_Messix

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2008, 11:08:20 AM »
I'll probably get heat for this one but...

A. W. Tillinghast

San Francisco
Winged Foot West
Somerset Hills
Baltimore Five Farms East

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2008, 11:11:54 AM »
Mackenzie:

CPC
Royal Melbourne East
Crystal Downs (Have not played, but it seems to be in everyone's top 10 courses of those who have)
Pasatiempo

ANGC (MOSTLY BAD) and NSWGC (MOSTLY GOOD) have to be excluded due to the fact there have been so many changes to the original routing
« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 02:42:11 PM by Anthony Butler »
Next!

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2008, 02:01:40 PM »
Mike Strantz

Tobacco Road
MPCC- Shore
Bull's Bay
Royal New Kent
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Andy Troeger

Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2008, 02:04:48 PM »
I'll try one, in no particular order

Pete Dye

Ocean Course
Harbor Towne
Crooked Stick
TPC Sawgrass

Lester


My Pete Dye listing would be
The Golf Club
Blackwolf Run River
TPC Sawgrass
Harbour Town

(haven't seen Honors, Pete Dye GC, or Kiawah...Whistling Straits would be 5th of what I have seen). Edit: Haven't seen Teeth of the Dog either.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 10:40:37 PM by Andy Troeger »

J Sadowsky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2008, 03:16:54 PM »
I'll probably get heat for this one but...

A. W. Tillinghast

San Francisco
Winged Foot West
Bethpage Black
Baltrusol Lower

Fixed your post :)

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2008, 04:04:47 PM »
Ed,

I only listed some of those I have seen,  haven't seen Whistling Straights but I,m sure it would have to rank.

Lester

Greg Clark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2008, 04:55:08 PM »
Pete Dye

Teeth of the Dog
Whistling Straits
The Ocean Course
The Golf Club

Bill Satterfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2008, 04:59:51 PM »
Jim Engh:

Black Rock
Sanctuary
Lakota Canyon
Pradera

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2008, 05:32:41 PM »
I want some guys in the know to throw up 4 Colt courses.  I don't believe it can be done.  Can anybody match Colt's consistency? 

Braid

Pennard
Brora
St Enodoc (not sure how much there is his)
My heart says Perranporth for the 4th, but I spose Gleneagles Kings deserves a shout.  If St Enodoc is out then Perranporth is in over Gleneagles Queens.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2008, 05:40:21 PM »
With the proviso that I have only played about 20% of their 65-70 original designs so far, here are my choices for Langford and Moreau.  I assume others I have yet to play like Glen Oak would have a good chance to make this list. 

Lawsonia Links
Wakonda CC
West Bend 9/Culver 9
Ozaukee CC
Butterfield or Spring Valley CC (whichever gets faithfully restored first) 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2008, 05:58:59 PM »
If we are talking in their originally designed form,





MacKenzie

CPC
Pasatiempo
RM
Crystal Downs

Valley Club and Kingston Heath can easily have a case made as well.


George Thomas

Riviera
LACC North
La Cumbre (heavily changed)
Ojai- (heavily changed)


Bel Air (pre Wilson) could also be included.


Max Behr


RSFGC- (heavily changed)
Lakeside- (heavily changed)
Victoria
Montecito- (almost all of Behr is gone)



Willie Watson

Olympic-Ocean (NLE)
Hillcrest
Orinda
Harding Park



Billy Bell


Stanford
La Jolla
Castlewood
Palos Verdes



"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2008, 06:20:09 PM »
I'll probably get heat for this one but...

A. W. Tillinghast

San Francisco
Winged Foot West
Bethpage Black
Baltrusol Lower

Fixed your post :)
Fixed yours:

SFGC
WFW
Bethpage Black
Fenway, Somerset Hills, or BCC East...pick'em
 ;D

I should think AWT would be far prouder of the Upper than the Lower, and the others even more so.


The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2008, 06:32:51 PM »
Donald Ross: Pinehurst 2, Oakland Hills, Scioto, Beverly(sorry but a sentimental favorite) So many to choose from-probably 25 to mention in a top tier these are just mine. 

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2008, 06:48:44 PM »
Jack Nicklaus

Muirfield Village
Shoal Creek
Castle Pines
Mayacama?  Would Sebonack count?  If so, would Harbour Town also count?
Senior Writer, GolfPass

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2008, 07:33:26 PM »
Rees Jones

Atlantic
Ocean Forest
The Golf Club at Briar's Creek
Olde Kinderhook

Never played any of the four, but determined to change that.

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2008, 07:34:14 PM »
I want some guys in the know to throw up 4 Colt courses.  I don't believe it can be done.  Can anybody match Colt's consistency? 

Braid

Pennard
Brora
St Enodoc (not sure how much there is his)
My heart says Perranporth for the 4th, but I spose Gleneagles Kings deserves a shout.  If St Enodoc is out then Perranporth is in over Gleneagles Queens.

Ciao

Sean,

I don't know if you've played any of the following courses, but I would like to hear why you would pick your four courses over a few others I'll throw out there:

Boat of Garten
Golspie
Hunstanton
Deal
Royal Aberdeen
Murcar








Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2008, 07:47:24 PM »
Tom Fazio.

Wade Hampton
Shadow Creek
Victoria National
Flint Hills

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects New
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2008, 08:10:42 PM »
I want some guys in the know to throw up 4 Colt courses.  I don't believe it can be done.  Can anybody match Colt's consistency? 

Braid

Pennard
Brora
St Enodoc (not sure how much there is his)
My heart says Perranporth for the 4th, but I spose Gleneagles Kings deserves a shout.  If St Enodoc is out then Perranporth is in over Gleneagles Queens.

Ciao

Sean,

I don't know if you've played any of the following courses, but I would like to hear why you would pick your four courses over a few others I'll throw out there:

Boat of Garten
Golspie
Hunstanton
Deal
Royal Aberdeen
Murcar

J

I have played them all and all are good though I think Murcar & especially Hunsanton are not up to their reputations and I don't think they stand up to the likes of Brora, Pennard & St Enodoc in terms of quality golf, let alone other considerations.  The only course you listed that does turn my head is Deal.  The main thing holding me back on this one is that brutal finish.  I can't say as I have ever enjoyed the finishing holes as a group.  In any sort of wind they are pure and simple a bitch - meaning the holes become one dimensional as in a lot of woods will be pulled from the bag.  Also, I am not sure how much of Deal is down to Braid, I am guessing not too much.  I am a fan of Golspie & The Boat, but they are not even close to quality of Pennard, Brora & St Enodoc. Many people only see these three courses in terms of funky golf that can't be taken too seriously.  I think this is a gross underestimation of their quality.  For all but the very best of us, all three demand all the shots in the book and still provide a barrel of laughs. 

We are just having a "natural courses" discussion with Jim Engh.  My bottom line reason for picking three of the four I did is down to the terrain and how the golf over this terrain is more natural then almost anywhere.  Pennard, Brora & St Enodoc are situated on some of the best golfing land in the world.  This land offers a wider variety holes then almost anywhere else.  Second, I like funky courses that charm rather than test me.  There are plenty of opportunities to drop shots regardless of the difficulty of the course. Third, nearly all of the courses I picked are far more affordable/low key experiences then half of your examples.  In fact, that is why my heart goes with Perranporth over Gleneagles!  While the price may not have anything to do with the architecture, it definitely influences how often I can enjoy the architecture.  As I always say, if I was only interested in the architecture, I wouldn't need to pay a green fee too often.  The experience of golf is far more than the architecture.

I know its all subjective nonsense, but thats anyone can offer in these matters.

I would still like a few chaps to take a stab at Colt.  It might be a very intriguing excercise.

Ciao
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 08:57:00 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best 4 courses of architects
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2008, 08:24:12 PM »


I would still like a few chaps to take a stab at Colt.  It might be a very intriguing excercise.

Ciao

Sean, I'll take a stab at Colt after Paul gives us his list. You're right, one could take Northern Ireland alone, for instance, and have a hard time coming up with a best four.

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