Lu Lu original 9 hole layout

[Joe Bausch]

I think this should clear up some stuff concerning LuLu.  This is from the August 25, 1918 edition of the Philadelphia Public Ledger.  Note the pen name "Joe Jigger".  I believe one William Evans decided to not use his real name for awhile there. 






For ease of reading issues, here are the last two columns of the article:

[wsmorrison]

Joe,

I believe the image in your post #18 is from 1928

[Joe Bausch]

Here is another Lu Lu article I came upon recently.  Again Ross is mentioned, with James as the constructor.  The article is from the May 18, 1919 issue of the Public Ledger.  I find the photo from the June 1 issue to be interesting.

[TEPaul]

Man alive, it seems like the sequence of this course at least for perhaps a year was really different and I can't see that this thread has picked up on it but maybe I missed any posts on this very different sequence.

I just called Jim Nagle to ask him if he was aware of this but he was sort of busy tailgating or something at a football geme and he said he'd check into it tomorrow.

From that May 1918 article here's the sequence.

Front Nine:
#1=the present 2nd hole
#2=the present 3rd hole
#3=the present little super short quarry par 3 #4
#4=you walked directly across the road and played present #8
#5=present #9
#6=a long par 4 version of today's par 5 #10
#7=today's # 11
#8=you walked back across the road and played present #5 as a par 5
#9=present par 3 #6

Back Nine:
#10=present #7
#11=a 246 yard par 3 from about today's #8 tee to today's #12 green (I believe this hole was a real Tilly-type "Reef" design).
#12=today's #13 but longer, a par 5
#13=today's #14
#14=today's par 3 #15
#15=today's short par 4 #16
#16=today's par 5 #17
#17=today's #18
#18=today's #1


If that's not odd enough in another article within the year they are talking about a really tough par 3 6th hole that appears to be about 225 yards which as described must have been from a tee 225 out to today's #10 green which was surrounded on three sides by marshy or creeky ground and on the left side by OB.

Did anyone pick up on this and I missed it?

Why they would've started at today's #2 and ended at today's #1 is a mystery to me but there may be one explanation. One can see in that original nine hole routing posted at the top of this thread that there used to be road called something like Deerwood Ave that cuts left from Limekiln Pike and follows the second half of today's first hole. That road does not exist anymore. Was that road taken out by this May 1918 article and perhaps the club was first considering putting a clubhouse to the right of today's 1st green and 2nd tee or perhaps they were using one of those old houses in there as their clubhouse temporarily before building their present clubhouse on the other side of the road? That's a pretty large triangle in there that most of us aren't aware of today.

[Tom Naccarato]

Tom, I haven't gotten a chance to read all of this yet, but from grazing it, WOW!

I'm still trying to figure out why you wanted me to go to Torresdale-Frankfort instead of Lu Lu! (just joking!)

[Sean_A]

Tom

I was just going through that course description and couldn't make head or tail of it because the aerial looks right.  What a bizarre numbering!

I must say that the first 8 holes didn't feel Ross like at all as a group.  I remember telling Steve that the course style changes once on the 9th (after the punchbowl hole) and it is much more Ross like.  Its difficult to explain, but part of that is the bunkering placement.  Holes like the 2nd just stand out as really weird for Ross, but then the 3rd doesn't seem unRoss like.  I was very confused about this time then the 4th hits ya.  Those seven holes on the original side of the course are an unbelievably eclectic bunch.  Only the 14th really stands out as being sort of that style on the other side of the road, but I think its a bit more crafty than the originals - it seems like somebody has gone to school to create this hole - probably the best on the course if they ever sort out the trees.  Though #s 2, 5, 6, 7, 11 & 18 are crackers as well with #7 needing some serious tree removal. 

I gotta get back there.  My mate selected LuLu as his favourite among Merion, Rolling Green, Lederach and LuLu.  I liked it, but I was seriously confused (and now I know why), but still placed it 3rd behind Merion and Lederach. 

Ciao

 

[TEPaul]

I should say that if that routing sequence explained in that newspaper article was ever actually put into play it does not seem like it lasted very long and the reason may be the new clubhouse on the other side of the road but it's hard to say. The club believes the original clubhouse was next to the present first tee. It probably was originally when the club had the original nine hole course on that side of the road but it seems it must have been very small. I have a suspicion the club may've used some building to the right of the present first green and second tee briefly, or thought about it, when that connecting road going left off Limekilm Pike was removed. I think you can still see a vestige of that road on the first aerial.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

All-

  Is this drawing from the perspective of looking at the current clubhouse side of the property or the other side of Limekiln Pike (where most of the current first nine is located today)?

[Sean_A]

All-

  Is this drawing from the perspective of looking at the current clubhouse side of the property or the other side of Limekiln Pike (where most of the current first nine is located today)?

Doug

Just by looking at the topographical features which are currently part of the 2nd and 4th this drawing has to be of the part of the course which has the first seven holes - across thew street from the clubhouse. 

Ciao

[Jeff_Brauer]

Original course must have been real tight. Ross took six holes across here and turned them into 4.

[JNagle]

Sean -

I must still set aside some tie to read the recently posted articles.  As for the bunkers on the first seven holes, there is no doubt they are Ross.  The photos we used to reshape the bunkers were enlarged to reveal the intricate faces and berm movements and there was never any doubt as to who designed them. 


TEPaul -

This is great stuff to review and I will continue reading later tonight.  Thanks for the call. 

[TEPaul]

"Original course must have been real tight. Ross took six holes across here and turned them into 4."


Mr. Jeffrey Brauer:

How are you feeling today my good man? I hope you are both fit and fiddle. Your statement that it must have been tight with six holes abreast in that section of the course is something of an understatement as even with the current four it is not what I would call all that "loose" between those holes now. If one tried to hide between those holes on that side of the road I doubt they would ever be successful in that particular endeavor.

I have some credible research material in my possession that indicates Franklin Meehan and/or constructor Frank James may've been something along the lines of what one might call misanthropes and their primary purpose in routing such an initially tight course was to maim or even kill duffers and hacks. 

[TEPaul]

One of the reasons that seemingly odd sequencing of the course as explained in post #28 may've been done is even if it is not very apparent at this point (because of trees along Limekiln Pike), it was actually much tighter in a green to next tee commute than a few of the holes on the course today.

In other words to go from present #11 to present #5 (#7 to #8) is basically just stepping right across Limekiln Pike. In that odd sequencing in that newspaper article there was not green to next tee commute anything near as long as from the present #11 green to the present #12 tee which is around 200 yards.

Something also tells me when the club put in the present larger parking lot they lost one helluva par 3 from a tee near current #8 tee to the present #12 green. On the old aerials that hole (#11 in this odd sequencing and #12 in the present sequence) sure did look to me like a pretty close imitation of Tilly's famous "Reef" hole design. Plus the thing on the card in that newspaper article shows a 248 yard PAR 3!! It did play sort of left to right side-hill and somewhat downhill, BUT STILL!!!

Mr. Jim Nagle, Architect Supreme, and current LuLu architect, I would like to suggest, since LuLu is absolutely rolling in money, that you recommend to the club that they remove their current parking lot and build an underground parking lot under the clubhouse. With this simple fix they would then have the available room to restore that remarkable super long Par 3 imitation "Reef" hole!

Tommy Naccarato:
By the way, your favorite green on that course (#8) was once referred to as "Soupbowl". Pretty fitting description of that green, don't you think?

[JNagle]

Below are photos from 1924-1925.  This would be 5-6 years after the completion of the course.  What is interesting is that the photos reveal the earthworks for many bunkers but there is no sand.  It has been our thought that the Club simply ran out of money at the time.  The course description from 1919 calls the hazards traps and bunkers, leading us to believe they were intended to receive sand.  The photos of the original 11th (Current 12th) lead me to believe they lost their best hole due to parking.  Believe me Tommy, there have been many instances where Ron and I wondered, just wondered, if they could relocate some parking.  Not possible.

As for starting the 1st at the current 2nd and the 18th at the current 1st, who knows.  Maybe they were intending on locationg the Clubhouse there and were unable to secure the money.  The 1919 article mentions money set aside for the Clubhouse, but you can see the facility has not even started in 24-25.   In fact, other photos seem to show that construction ended in mid-1927.  I do not believe the mystery par 3 6th was ever built.  No where on the property exists the ability for water on the 3 sides. 

[TEPaul]

Jim:


Wow, those are some pretty useful aerials you just put up. The only reason I can see for that odd sequencing using the 2nd hole as the 1st and the 1st as the 18th is the club must have considered buying and using for their clubhouse that place and lot and land that shows up on the original stick routing above that is labeled something like J.B. Graven. If you look at it on one of your aerials it looks like all the space and accomodation necessary for a clubhouse.

But yet it seems like the houses that were used as the original nine hole course clubhouse and perhaps later before they sited and built their present clubhouse are those ones next to the present first tee. They had to have preexisted the original nine hole course and I would say they were probably the farmhouse and farm buildings for the farm that the original nine holes were laid out on.

[Mike Hendren]

Gents,

The original 10th looks like a very short par four with a split fairway and the tee hard against Limekiln near the current entry road.  Possible?

I absolutely love this golf course.

Bogey

[JNagle]

Here is a current image from LuLu.